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Post by Kapitan on Mar 22, 2019 13:00:07 GMT
Beach Boys fans are obviously used to this discussion (or argument): when is the band on that stage no longer that band? New York Times published this story today running down lists of classic acts and their various feuds through membership changes and the rights to use the band names that got them famous.
Shockingly the Beach Boys aren't mentioned at all! But you get mention or discussion of Three Dog Night, Foreigner, Journey, Fleetwood Mac, Velvet Underground, Mott the Hoople, the Who, KISS, and many others.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 23, 2019 13:02:13 GMT
I used to be somewhat of a purist and looked down on groups who fought over names and continued on with just one or two - or zero - original members. It still bothers me to some extent, and I'm hypocritical about it. With some bands it bothers me and with others I look the other way. When you really think about it or research it, the list of major bands who DIDN'T continue on after losing members is frightening small. You have The Beatles and then...
It was the weirdest thing that changed my mind. One night I was watching a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert on a country music cable TV channel, and I think Skynyrd was down to one or two original members, and the stage was full of replacements. But, the replacements were good, very good. They played all the hits note for note, but they rocked. The twin lead guitars were scorching, the piano player was rollicking perfect, the drummer was right on, and Ronnie Van Zandt's brother, Johnny, could not have been better as the frontman on lead vocals. Now, I'm not an original diehard fan of Lynyrd Skynyrd; I appreciated their radio hits. But if I was a longtime fan, I might've felt differently. Maybe I would've scoffed at this new configuration and dismissed it as a money grab.
But I didn't view it that way. These were great musicians. The songs were performed impeccably. The band was having a great time, not just going through the motions. But most importantly, THE FANS WERE HAVING A GREAT TIME. They were singing and dancing and wearing Skynyrd T-shirts and just enjoying the moment - the music.
And that's when I changed my mind or my attitude. If the bands are able to work out the legalities, and they are putting forth quality music and performances, and if fans are willing to pay money to see it, then I say no problem. What's wrong with people going out for an evening of music and enjoying songs performed by professional musicians? Yes, of course there a line to be drawn with some acts. And I do cringe and sometimes speak out when certain artists don't belong on stage anymore because of age or physical condition - a 90 year-old Chuck Berry comes to mind. But, then again, if he's making people happy, specifically the people who are attending the shows, who am I to balk? It's his life.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 23, 2019 13:22:01 GMT
I'm pretty forgiving, too. I think in a lot of cases I personally wouldn't want to see these bands, but that's just a personal preference anyway. If the bands want to play and can make a living playing, and fans enjoy going to see them, well, where's the harm?
I guess for me it would just be if it's a misleading situation. I would have a problem with that. But I don't think that tends to be the case.
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Post by kds on Mar 24, 2019 4:32:19 GMT
I've become more forgiving, at least in live situations, especially since I've paid to see versions of The Beach Boys, Queen, The Doors, Asia, etc without key members.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 24, 2019 13:06:19 GMT
One act I have to chuckle at a little bit and one I sometime wince at.
Danny Hutton is now paying the price for his ex-band having a name with a number in it. When Chuck Negron left Three Dog Night, it appeared a little awkward having just two "Dogs" - Hutton and Cory Wells - continuing as THREE Dog Night. Now, after Wells' passing, the group is down to One Dog Night. While Negron's leaving and Wells' passing is certainly unfortunate and sad, I wonder if Hutton makes any one-liners about the name in concert. And, yes, I know the meaning of "three dog night" and it wasn't necessarily referring to the three lead singers. Right now, Three Dog Night is a little like The Beach Boys' situation. Just as Mike Love has to keep the Beach Boys' name to sell tickets, it's the same with Danny Hutton. Three Dog Night or The Danny Hutton Band? It's a no-brainer.
The one act I have to wince a little at is The Who. Oh, I know they're no different than dozens of other bands doing the same thing (continuing on after losing members), but when I see Pete and Roger performing these days, it just doesn't "look" right. Yes, Keith Moon and John Entwistle didn't write or sing many of The Who's songs, but they were such brilliant musicians and had unique personalities of their own, especially Moonie. I'm not really a big Who fan, more a greatest hits follower, but I don't see The Who up there anymore. It just looks like Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry performing Who songs.
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Post by kds on Mar 26, 2019 17:05:38 GMT
One act I have to chuckle at a little bit and one I sometime wince at.
Danny Hutton is now paying the price for his ex-band having a name with a number in it. When Chuck Negron left Three Dog Night, it appeared a little awkward having just two "Dogs" - Hutton and Cory Wells - continuing as THREE Dog Night. Now, after Wells' passing, the group is down to One Dog Night. While Negron's leaving and Wells' passing is certainly unfortunate and sad, I wonder if Hutton makes any one-liners about the name in concert. And, yes, I know the meaning of "three dog night" and it wasn't necessarily referring to the three lead singers. Right now, Three Dog Night is a little like The Beach Boys' situation. Just as Mike Love has to keep the Beach Boys' name to sell tickets, it's the same with Danny Hutton. Three Dog Night or The Danny Hutton Band? It's a no-brainer.
The one act I have to wince a little at is The Who. Oh, I know they're no different than dozens of other bands doing the same thing (continuing on after losing members), but when I see Pete and Roger performing these days, it just doesn't "look" right. Yes, Keith Moon and John Entwistle didn't write or sing many of The Who's songs, but they were such brilliant musicians and had unique personalities of their own, especially Moonie. I'm not really a big Who fan, more a greatest hits follower, but I don't see The Who up there anymore. It just looks like Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry performing Who songs.
I've seen The Who twice since John passed, and from my experience, they still put on a great show. Zak Starkey is far and away the best drummer they've had since Keith passed. Pino Palladino does a serviceable job replacing John. It's no easy feat replacing arguably the greatest rhythm section in rock history, but I think they do a good job, Roger and Pete still give it their all.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 27, 2019 13:10:33 GMT
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Post by kds on Mar 27, 2019 13:19:40 GMT
As the old guard continues to pass away and retire, and with the overall lack of exciting new artist in rock, I feel like the future of live rock music will be littered with tribute shows (there are already very successful touring tribute acts to The Beatles and Pink Floyd) and hologram shows.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 27, 2019 13:34:29 GMT
Could be...until audiences also pass away. If there isn’t significant new growth in the performing talent, it’s hard to imagine new audiences appearing or growing on a grand scale.
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Post by kds on Mar 27, 2019 13:42:05 GMT
Could be...until audiences also pass away. If there isn’t significant new growth in the performing talent, it’s hard to imagine new audiences appearing or growing on a grand scale. There's truth to that, but I think there will always be new fans discovering the music of The Beatles, Stones, Who, Floyd, Zeppelin, Queen, etc etc. The question is will these new fans be willing to pay money to see shows that're essentially tribute shows? I think so, but the venues will obvious be smaller. Kinda like the venues played by the likes of Rain or Brit Floyd.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 27, 2019 14:02:46 GMT
I think it’s likely there will be SOME audiences, but the question is how many/how big.
My guess is it will dwindle over time. Yes, we have younger people (including the likes of us) who weren’t first generation fans. But as the music’s era fades over another few decades, as it isn’t just that listeners don’t remember this but neither do their parents or grandparents?
Comparison: what are the modern audiences for century-old jazz and folk? Not big.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2019 0:38:46 GMT
I'm very curious to see how far they can go with these hologram concerts. I mean, technology...They might progress to something incredible, or incredibly real. I can see myself attending selected shows by a few...deceased artists/bands. I don't know if I would go to repeated showings, but maybe once just to check it out.
Last year I attended a Led Zeppelin tribute concert by a group called Get The Led Out. I was skeptical going in and came out very impressed. It was one of the most enjoyable concerts I attended in a long time. I think when all of these great rock & roll artists/groups pass on, there will be sort of an informal "Battle Of The Tribute bands", and may the best band win. Seriously, I expect tribute bands to be springing up all over the place, for just about every great group of the 1960's and 1970's, and the cream of the crop of those tribute bands will continue on while the others fade away.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2019 0:53:04 GMT
I don't think you're wrong about tribute bands (or holograms). It's more that unfortunately there won't be any new Led Zeppelin songs, Queen songs, Beatles songs, and eventually Beach Boys songs, Paul Simon songs, Bob Dylan songs... The canon is the canon and will be great while it's remembered. But I still think that as the generations (and maybe another few after them) who saw those bands in real time die, the canon will be whittled down and be less significant. Available, sure, but in the same sense that there are catalogs of never-performed classical and jazz and folk music out there.
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Post by kds on Mar 28, 2019 14:25:06 GMT
I think it’s likely there will be SOME audiences, but the question is how many/how big. My guess is it will dwindle over time. Yes, we have younger people (including the likes of us) who weren’t first generation fans. But as the music’s era fades over another few decades, as it isn’t just that listeners don’t remember this but neither do their parents or grandparents? Comparison: what are the modern audiences for century-old jazz and folk? Not big. True, but the audience is still there, same goes for classic music. I fully believe that, in 2112, great works like Pet Sounds, Abbey Road, Dark Side of the Moon, and.....um....2112 will still be finding audiences. And there will be some sort of live music for those fans. Like I said, smaller venues, but it'll still be there. If there are bigger audiences for tributes to Cardi B and Taylor Swift in 2112, then......well, I'm glad I won't be around if that happens.
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Post by kds on Mar 28, 2019 14:26:56 GMT
I'm very curious to see how far they can go with these hologram concerts. I mean, technology...They might progress to something incredible, or incredibly real. I can see myself attending selected shows by a few...deceased artists/bands. I don't know if I would go to repeated showings, but maybe once just to check it out.
Last year I attended a Led Zeppelin tribute concert by a group called Get The Led Out. I was skeptical going in and came out very impressed. It was one of the most enjoyable concerts I attended in a long time. I think when all of these great rock & roll artists/groups pass on, there will be sort of an informal "Battle Of The Tribute bands", and may the best band win. Seriously, I expect tribute bands to be springing up all over the place, for just about every great group of the 1960's and 1970's, and the cream of the crop of those tribute bands will continue on while the others fade away.
I don't think you'll see full shows by holograms, but I could see these tribute acts doing one song with a deceased artists' vocals. From what I understand, that's pretty much what the Dio Discipiles were doing with the Ronnie James Dio hologram.
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