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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 3:33:07 GMT
No rules here. Go with what you would have rushed out and bought in a heartbeat. Go with a non album B-side? Sure! Make your own rules. Explain your choice if you'd like or just put it out there and see what everyone else thinks.
Ok, I'll start with Sunflower:
First single: A--This Whole World B--Deirdre
Second single: A--All I Wanna Do B--Slip On Through
Third single: A--Add Some Music to Your Day B--Forever
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 10, 2021 7:46:48 GMT
No rules here. Go with what you would have rushed out and bought in a heartbeat. Go with a non album B-side? Sure! Make your own rules. Explain your choice if you'd like or just put it out there and see what everyone else thinks. Ok, I'll start with Sunflower: First single: A--This Whole World B--Deirdre Second single: A--All I Wanna Do B--Slip On Through Third single: A--Add Some Music to Your Day B--Forever I don't think it would matter what songs were chosen as singles from Sunflower. It was the album era, and people needed to experience the album. But move up to the 80's, and I can think of a couple albums that needed better choices for singles. The Beach Boys 1985 first single: A-Getcha Back B-Male Ego second single :A-California Calling B- Runaway third single: A- Maybe I Don't Know B- It's Gettin' Late As you can see, I think they made the right choice with the first single. Second single, It's Gettin' Late was a brave choice, but the general public always preferred the retro Beach Boys sound to anything contemporary, and they had a second retro track on the album just begging to be a single (it was even listed on the hype sticker). And instead of resurrecting a flop single for the b-side, use one of those hard to find recordings of recent vintage. Runaway fits the bill. It only got released on a Sunkist promo album in 86. Third single? Assuming the first and second singles did well, now you can afford to take a gamble, and release something more contemporary. Maybe I Don't Know has some great 80's guitar playing on it, it just might have gotten a chance following successive top 40 hits. The next place they goofed is Brian Wilson 88. Love and Mercy is a good song, but no way does it sound like a hit single.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 10, 2021 13:02:02 GMT
I don't think it would matter what songs were chosen as singles from Sunflower. It was the album era, and people needed to experience the album. I disagree, at least with the reason. There were still plenty of great singles not necessarily thought of only in context of albums. In late August 1970 (which is when Sunflower was released), you had singles like "War," "Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours," "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," etc. It's true that albums had become more important, but great singles kept being successful throughout that era, too. Somebody was having success with them.
It might not have mattered more just in the context of the band's relative decline in popularity: when you're not seen as cool, you're not seen as cool.
Anyway, here's how I'd have handled Sunflower.
First single:
This Whole World All I Wanna Do
Second single: Slip on Through Add Some Music
Third single: Forever
Cottonfields (Single/Int'l album version)
EDIT Beyond just the choice of singles, I think the promotional campaign would be key. I have no idea what they actually did for promotion, either in terms of messaging, timing, budget, or selected outlets. But I think it would have been a great idea to push them as a legendary band who, despite what you know and love(d) about them, is still not just current but progressive. I think pushing "classic harmonies in a new style" would have been key. The leadoff single of "This Whole World" and "All I Wanna Do" are perfect for that angle, somehow both sounding like classic Beach Boys but not remotely like classic Beach Boys.
In ads with audio (TV or radio) I might have included a brief montage of their music from an early hit through the current singles, like a bit of "Surfin USA," then "I Get Around," then "Wouldn't It Be Nice," then "Heroes and Villains," then maybe "Darlin" or something, and then into "This Whole World." Something like that would really demonstrate for listeners that this isn't the band that did "Surfin USA," even as there is a through-line.
I'd have put Dennis front and center in a lot of it, for some obvious reasons: he's got a lot of music on the album, but more importantly, he's a good face to put on promotional campaigns, being the only real sex symbol in the group.
Where to place the promotional materials? That, I can't really say (having not been alive at the time), but I'd think big ads in Rolling Stone and other then-cool magazines would make sense, as well as radio and TV.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 22:05:19 GMT
I don't think it would matter what songs were chosen as singles from Sunflower. It was the album era, and people needed to experience the album. I disagree, at least with the reason. There were still plenty of great singles not necessarily thought of only in context of albums. In late August 1970 (which is when Sunflower was released), you had singles like "War," "Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours," "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," etc. It's true that albums had become more important, but great singles kept being successful throughout that era, too. Somebody was having success with them.
This is what I was thinking. Pet Sounds was a total album experience yet it yielded some successful singles. The appreciation of albums escalated somewhat in 1970, but singles were still alive and well (and would be for years to come). Other bands were releasing "classic albums", such as The Grateful Dead with American Beauty, CSN&Y with Deja Vu, etc, and they all yielded singles. Nice Sunflower selection, btw. I see we picked the same songs (with one exception) but just a different order.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 22:14:09 GMT
The Beach Boys 1985 first single: A-Getcha Back B-Male Ego second single :A-California Calling B- Runaway third single: A- Maybe I Don't Know B- It's Gettin' Late As you can see, I think they made the right choice with the first single. Second single, It's Gettin' Late was a brave choice, but the general public always preferred the retro Beach Boys sound to anything contemporary, and they had a second retro track on the album just begging to be a single (it was even listed on the hype sticker). And instead of resurrecting a flop single for the b-side, use one of those hard to find recordings of recent vintage. Runaway fits the bill. It only got released on a Sunkist promo album in 86. Third single? Assuming the first and second singles did well, now you can afford to take a gamble, and release something more contemporary. Maybe I Don't Know has some great 80's guitar playing on it, it just might have gotten a chance following successive top 40 hits. The next place they goofed is Brian Wilson 88. Love and Mercy is a good song, but no way does it sound like a hit single. Good call, lonelysummer. Even in the 1980s some of the singles choices were odd. And at that time, the Beach Boys could have used all the help they could get. I think they were still conflicted with which direction to go: oldies act, or stay current.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 11, 2021 0:39:30 GMT
But move up to the 80's, and I can think of a couple albums that needed better choices for singles. The Beach Boys 1985 first single: A-Getcha Back B-Male Ego second single :A-California Calling B- Runaway third single: A- Maybe I Don't Know B- It's Gettin' Late As you can see, I think they made the right choice with the first single. Second single, It's Gettin' Late was a brave choice, but the general public always preferred the retro Beach Boys sound to anything contemporary, and they had a second retro track on the album just begging to be a single (it was even listed on the hype sticker). And instead of resurrecting a flop single for the b-side, use one of those hard to find recordings of recent vintage. Runaway fits the bill. It only got released on a Sunkist promo album in 86. Third single? Assuming the first and second singles did well, now you can afford to take a gamble, and release something more contemporary. Maybe I Don't Know has some great 80's guitar playing on it, it just might have gotten a chance following successive top 40 hits. Good post, lonelysummer! Obviously, "Getcha Back" was a no-brainer, but I didn't agree with the B-side. IMO, "Male Ego" is an embarrassing and overrated song, with possibly the worst lyrics of any Beach Boys' song, and there's some pretty bad ones. They were right in wanting to feature a BW song, but "Crack At Your Love", "I'm So Lonely", or "It's Just A Matter Of Time" would've been better.
I agree with your second choice of "California Calling". That was no-brainer, too, and they blew it. Did their pride get in the way? They went "back" with "Getcha Back" but they couldn't do it a second time with "California Calling". They should've. Give the people (old and prospective new fans) what they want. They didn't want some overly-processed, Steve Levine creation. Your choice of "Runaway" is an interesting one, and while I like it (and have it), I think I would've, again, featured a new BW song instead. There was kind of a "this is a new start" feeling at the time, and I think they were smart to stick with a song off the new album.
For the third single, the trifecta, I just would've put out "Where I Belong" - the best song on the album - and let the chips fall where they may. Again, I think they overthought and probably figured that "Where I Belong" wasn't single material. I would've liked to find out.
Oh, and BTW, can you believe they resurrected "It's OK" as the flip-side to "It's Getting Late". Seriously, who was making these decisions?
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Post by B.E. on Aug 11, 2021 2:59:34 GMT
Third single: A- Maybe I Don't Know B- It's Gettin' Late. I think these two might be too similar. For my taste, if I’m choosing a Carl tune from BB85 for a single release, it’s gotta be “Where I Belong”.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 3:20:24 GMT
The singles from 20/20 could have used some serious guidance. I realize that at the time relations with Capitol were quite strained and most likely all parties involved were merely looking to wrap things up. But in a perfect world, this is what should have been unleashed to the 1968-69 public:
First single: A--Do It Again B--Wake the World I think they got this one right, considering it was released in '68 ahead of the album, and I'm not sure what was "in the can" at that point. "Wake the World" from Friends seems a logical B-side.
Second single: A--Time to Get Alone B--We're Together Again
Third single: A--I Can Hear Music B--I Went to Sleep
I don't know if these selections would have been commercially viable, but I think they would have made enjoyable singles.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 11, 2021 3:21:45 GMT
Third single: A- Maybe I Don't Know B- It's Gettin' Late. I think these two might be too similar. For my taste, if I’m choosing a Carl tune from BB85 for a single release, it’s gotta be “Where I Belong”. Where I Belong is the best song on the album, but I never heard it and thought "hit single".
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 11, 2021 3:29:03 GMT
I don't think it would matter what songs were chosen as singles from Sunflower. It was the album era, and people needed to experience the album. I disagree, at least with the reason. There were still plenty of great singles not necessarily thought of only in context of albums. In late August 1970 (which is when Sunflower was released), you had singles like "War," "Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours," "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," etc. It's true that albums had become more important, but great singles kept being successful throughout that era, too. Somebody was having success with them.
It might not have mattered more just in the context of the band's relative decline in popularity: when you're not seen as cool, you're not seen as cool.
Anyway, here's how I'd have handled Sunflower.
First single:
This Whole World All I Wanna Do
Second single: Slip on Through Add Some Music
Third single: Forever
Cottonfields (Single/Int'l album version)
EDIT Beyond just the choice of singles, I think the promotional campaign would be key. I have no idea what they actually did for promotion, either in terms of messaging, timing, budget, or selected outlets. But I think it would have been a great idea to push them as a legendary band who, despite what you know and love(d) about them, is still not just current but progressive. I think pushing "classic harmonies in a new style" would have been key. The leadoff single of "This Whole World" and "All I Wanna Do" are perfect for that angle, somehow both sounding like classic Beach Boys but not remotely like classic Beach Boys.
In ads with audio (TV or radio) I might have included a brief montage of their music from an early hit through the current singles, like a bit of "Surfin USA," then "I Get Around," then "Wouldn't It Be Nice," then "Heroes and Villains," then maybe "Darlin" or something, and then into "This Whole World." Something like that would really demonstrate for listeners that this isn't the band that did "Surfin USA," even as there is a through-line.
I'd have put Dennis front and center in a lot of it, for some obvious reasons: he's got a lot of music on the album, but more importantly, he's a good face to put on promotional campaigns, being the only real sex symbol in the group.
Where to place the promotional materials? That, I can't really say (having not been alive at the time), but I'd think big ads in Rolling Stone and other then-cool magazines would make sense, as well as radio and TV.
I wasn't speaking generally - just to the Beach Boys specifically. They weren't writing or recording anything in the Sunflower/Surf's Up era that sounds like a potential hit single to my ears. Of course there were great singles in 70/71 - I have them!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 11, 2021 11:12:03 GMT
Ah, I see. I misunderstood your point, sorry about that.
I still disagree a little bit, then: I still do think some of these songs, even those that were singles could have been bigger hits. Whether it was just their state of (lack of) popularity at the time, or promotion, I don't know. But I hear strong singles in a few of those songs.
However, yeah, sorry for arguing against a point you weren't making!
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Post by kds on Aug 12, 2021 13:10:19 GMT
I'm skipping ahead a few years - That's Why God Made the Radio, even though the idea of A and B sides are pretty antiquated by 2012 standards.
First Single - May 2012
A - Spring Vacation - I know it's probably my least favorite song from the album, and yeah, it's a tad corny, but I agree with Sheriff's idea that it would've made for a great single. Getting ready for summer and the reunion tour, please leads from Mike and Brian. B - Isn't It Time (Album Version) - Continues with the same theme as SV. Leads from Brian, Mike, and even a couple lines from Al.
Second Single - June 2012
A - Title Track - Not really an ideal single to me, that's why I'd make it the second single instead of the third. B - Strange World - A break from the "looking back, we're back together" theme with a late era PS pastiche song.
Third Single - July 2012
A - Beaches in Mind - This song gets a ton of shit from BB fans, but I feel like another beachy type song might shift a couple more copies of the album in mid summer. B - Shelter - It's got a really nice chorus by either Brian or Jeff, depending on who you ask.
I do think the closing trio of songs on the album are incredible, but I don't think I'd release either as a single.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2021 13:23:38 GMT
I was thinking about TWGMTR singles, too. And similarly, I got to thinking about how singles don't necessarily have to be followed in a traditional sense, which got me thinking about the closing trilogy. That could have been released as a single piece of sorts, marketed as Brian's brilliance with the band singing, etc. Not as a leadoff single, probably (which I'd have probably done as Isn't It Time [not the single version, the album version, which is much superior imo] and maybe Shelter or Strange World as B-side), but second. With massive promotion, including a high quality short film-video.
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Post by kds on Aug 12, 2021 13:27:54 GMT
I was toying with the idea of a possible late summer release with the closing trilogy, maybe even with Think About the Days as an intro.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2021 13:34:23 GMT
I was toying with the idea of a possible late summer release with the closing trilogy, maybe even with Think About the Days as an intro. I can definitely see that, a September release maybe.
Remember how major "film" videos were such a big deal back in the heyday of MTV? Almost every Michael Jackson video (and especially his albums' first singles), or those Illusion GnR videos, were really promoted. It was advertised when they'd premiere, even when they'd run sometimes.
Obviously the era of MTV was gone by then, but you could still have had a media campaign advertising it for weeks in advance. Snippets of those (obviously beautiful) sounds in strategically placed ad spots for key demographics. Promoting it as a multipart suite from the genius who brought you Pet Sounds.
Then the short film/video combining historical clips of the band aging over the years, sentimental sepia-toned images of Carl and Dennis, etc. My god, it's the kind of thing that Parenthood or This is Us viewers would swoon and die over. (Hopefully not literally.)
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