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Post by B.E. on Oct 19, 2021 23:18:25 GMT
Wow, this actually surprised me. Kudos to the Sixers for not allowing Simmons to get paid without doing the work, but what was Simmons thinking...that they would? Why come back if you aren't even willing to take part in practice drills? Bizarre. To Kapitan's earlier point about Simmons' return aiding his trade value...well, he/they managed to make it worse!
Meanwhile, I'm excited for the start of the season!
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NBA
Oct 20, 2021 11:53:39 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 20, 2021 11:53:39 GMT
Brooklyn and the Lakers both 0-1. What a beautiful start to the season! One down, 81 to go (apiece) for those perfect, 0-82 seasons.
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NBA
Oct 21, 2021 11:55:08 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2021 11:55:08 GMT
Wolves win, Knicks win, 76ers win ... our teams had a nice opening night!
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Oct 21, 2021 12:02:34 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 21, 2021 12:02:34 GMT
Wolves win, Knicks win, 76ers win ... our teams had a nice opening night! The 76ers had a good team win - 4 players with 20 points. Doc Rivers really spread out the minutes. Tyrese Maxey started and played well. I think the Sixers missed Ben Simmons on the defensive end. The Pelicans were without Zion who is still rehabbing. The 76ers play Brooklyn on Friday. That will tell me a lot more about the team.
I caught the two overtime periods of the Knicks/Celtics game. That was wild!
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NBA
Oct 21, 2021 12:11:43 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2021 12:11:43 GMT
The Wolves faced Houston, often regarded as the worst team in the league coming into this season. And it was a home game. So of course you'd expect to win that one ... yet it's also the kind of game the Wolves are famous for not winning consistently.
It might be the first time in their year together that the "big three" of KAT, D'Angelo Russell, and Anthony Edwards played like a big three at the same time. They combined for 81 points, 19 rebounds, and 12 assists. The other two starters were defense-minded Josh Okogie and Jaden McDaniels, which helps bolster the end of the court where we have been abysmal for years. Even though nobody else hit double figures, I don't worry quite as much about that: Malik Beasley in particular has proved he can score, and so can Naz Reid, Taurean Prince, Jake Layman.
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 2:46:39 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 22, 2021 2:46:39 GMT
The complete list of the NBA's 75 greatest players of all-time. Agreements or disagreements? Additions or subtractions?
I was slightly surprised at the Dave DeBusschere choice. Obviously I never saw him play but Bill Sharman surprised me. Dennis Rodman? One of the 75 best? And, Bill Walton certainly had the skills to be selected, but...
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 13:49:40 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 13:49:40 GMT
I'll take a look soon, here, but two quick comments:
- I LOVE--but also HATE--this kind of list! They are so much fun to speculate on, but every time I try to get serious about making or reviewing them, I quickly remember that they're impossible. What do we mean by greatest? Highest peaks? Longest stretches of excellence? Winning? Etc. You mentioned Bill Walton, and he's a great example: one of the most talented, and at his peak one of the best, players. But not for long. Much of his career he wasn't all that great, unfortunately, due to injuries. From a later era, think of Larry Johnson: in his first couple seasons, he was one of the best in the league and seemed on his way to superstardom. But it wasn't to last, again due to injuries. (Obviously I am not campaigning for LJ in the Top 75 ... but where is the line? When is an LJ not OK but a Walton OK?) Or what about different eras? Does someone dominating the '50s mean as much as someone dominating the '10s?
- I wish these things would be made available in a simple list form alongside the blurbs with stats and commentary. I'd like to see them all at a glance.
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 14:03:50 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 14:03:50 GMT
Of the guys I feel competent to really judge--guys who played in or after the mid-80s--Dennis Rodman is the most questionable. He was REALLY good. He could change games with his defense. He was an insanely good rebounder when he set his mind to it, beginning several years into his career (when he was 30!). But his offense was so terrible, it's almost like selecting some offense-only chucker like Antoine Walker or World B Free. And he was so undependable, besides, he ended up hurting his teams on a semi-regular basis. Had he not been on those Bulls title teams, I'll bet he wouldn't have made it. So is that fair?
Here is one I bet you can help me with: Billy Cunningham. Now, I realize he had about a five-year stretch in the '70s that were just crazy: roughly 25 ppg, 12 rpg, 5 apg or thereabouts for a little while. But he had roughly the same number of years (both before and after) where the numbers didn't jump out as insane, just good. (I mean, really good. All Star. But we're talking Top 75 of all time.) Plus his career wasn't that long. Does he belong? I don't know, I never saw him and can't compare him to other players of his era.
Lastly, Sam Jones. Again, way before my time. His numbers don't jump out, but when you check his career year by year, the latter half was pretty ridiculous. (For a guy to go from a 10-15 ppg scorer to a 25 ppg in his 30s is amazing.) He rebounded well for a guard. He was obviously a key part of a lot of great teams. I just can't assess him qualitatively, so I don't know.
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 14:13:27 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 14:13:27 GMT
- I wish these things would be made available in a simple list form alongside the blurbs with stats and commentary. I'd like to see them all at a glance. I like this, for example.
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 16:18:33 GMT
B.E. likes this
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 22, 2021 16:18:33 GMT
Of the guys I feel competent to really judge--guys who played in or after the mid-80s--Dennis Rodman is the most questionable. He was REALLY good. He could change games with his defense. He was an insanely good rebounder when he set his mind to it, beginning several years into his career (when he was 30!). But his offense was so terrible, it's almost like selecting some offense-only chucker like Antoine Walker or World B Free. And he was so undependable, besides, he ended up hurting his teams on a semi-regular basis. Had he not been on those Bulls title teams, I'll bet he wouldn't have made it. So is that fair?
Here is one I bet you can help me with: Billy Cunningham. Now, I realize he had about a five-year stretch in the '70s that were just crazy: roughly 25 ppg, 12 rpg, 5 apg or thereabouts for a little while. But he had roughly the same number of years (both before and after) where the numbers didn't jump out as insane, just good. (I mean, really good. All Star. But we're talking Top 75 of all time.) Plus his career wasn't that long. Does he belong? I don't know, I never saw him and can't compare him to other players of his era.
Lastly, Sam Jones. Again, way before my time. His numbers don't jump out, but when you check his career year by year, the latter half was pretty ridiculous. (For a guy to go from a 10-15 ppg scorer to a 25 ppg in his 30s is amazing.) He rebounded well for a guard. He was obviously a key part of a lot of great teams. I just can't assess him qualitatively, so I don't know.
I agree with you on Billy Cunningham and Sam Jones. I thought about listing both of them in my post as possible exclusions.
With Billy C., the only thing that I question - and it's obviously an important consideration - is his longevity. He only played nine NBA seasons and in one of them he missed most of the season. In the ABA, he only played two seasons, and in one of those he missed half the season. And, how much credit do you want to give him for those ABA seasons? I remember when he split to Carolina. He was criticized heavily. The 76ers were bad and needed him, and his move was viewed as a money grab. But, in his heyday, yes, The Kangaroo Kid was absolutely one of the 75 best. He was only 6'6" but he played much bigger than that. I wonder if his outstanding coaching record (check it out), including a championship with the 76ers, might have garnered him some subconscious votes. In some SJS trivia, an ex-classmate's mother dated Billy C. back in the 1960's. I see her in church every Sunday morning; she knows me and I'm always tempted to stop her after church and ask her about it/him. Knowing her (she's in her early 80's now), she would probably laugh...and tell me about it!
I was actually a Celtics fan, too, back in the 1960's (it seemed like they were on TV every week) and I remember Sam Jones. I remember him as a consistently solid, great player. When I looked at his stats, I didn't realize he had so many years at or over 20 ppg. He played in 12 NBA seasons and played most/all of those seasons. I never considered him a physical player defensively or rebounding-wise; there were other Celtics who filled that role. Sam's role was the shooting guard. And, I don't want to deduct points just for that. There are other players on the 75 player list who also fit that role. And, you wonder what he would've done on a less-talented team (instead of a dynasty) that didn't feed him the ball consistently. Hey, maybe he would've been a more prolific scorer without three or four other all-stars all the time.
For now, upon further consideration, I think I would keep both Billy C. and Sam on the list. For now.
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Oct 22, 2021 17:50:08 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 17:50:08 GMT
Sorry, and I'm no doubt out of step with the appropriate sympathies of our times on this one, but...give me a fucking break.
Call me suspicious.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 22, 2021 19:40:01 GMT
Sorry, and I'm no doubt out of step with the appropriate sympathies of our times on this one, but...give me a fucking break.
Call me suspicious.
The Philly sports' talk shows are on fire. With this latest stunt, while the intent is obvious (to get out of practicing/playing), Simmons has inadvertently offended the population that is truly affected by mental illness. Simmons opened up a hornet's nest, by "using" an illness (depression, anxiety, stress, PTSD, etc.), one that can be truly debilitating.
In an interview yesterday, Daryl Morey said that he has not heard from the league, that this problem is between the 76ers and Ben Simmons. I think it's getting dangerously closer to Adam Silver intervening.
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NBA
Oct 22, 2021 19:47:06 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 19:47:06 GMT
You put it better than I did, because I really don't mean to downplay mental illness--I mean real mental illness. And all jokes aside, there might be something wrong mentally with Ben Simmons based on his obvious ongoing unwillingness to shoot the basketball, and apparent fear of returning to the "scene of the crime." I'm not even kidding about that. He really seems to have a mental stumbling block there.
Had he said in June that he wants to see a psychologist/psychiatrist to discuss issues he's having, wanting to work through, that would be one thing. But seriously, it is more than a little suspect when you've been demanding a trade, holding out, then you make a heroic return only to try to sit out of responsibilities like practice, and then claim you're not "mentally ready?" What kind of crap is this?
The absolute best-case scenario in terms of his character would be that yes, he is having some mental health issues, and dealt with them in an atrocious and immature way the past five months or so. The more realistic scenario is he's a spoiled manchild who, upon realizing the discomfort that comes with public failure, has chosen to blame the organization that made him unimaginably rich.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 22, 2021 20:15:50 GMT
You put it better than I did, because I really don't mean to downplay mental illness--I mean real mental illness. And all jokes aside, there might be something wrong mentally with Ben Simmons based on his obvious ongoing unwillingness to shoot the basketball, and apparent fear of returning to the "scene of the crime." I'm not even kidding about that. He really seems to have a mental stumbling block there.
Had he said in June that he wants to see a psychologist/psychiatrist to discuss issues he's having, wanting to work through, that would be one thing. But seriously, it is more than a little suspect when you've been demanding a trade, holding out, then you make a heroic return only to try to sit out of responsibilities like practice, and then claim you're not "mentally ready?" What kind of crap is this?
The absolute best-case scenario in terms of his character would be that yes, he is having some mental health issues, and dealt with them in an atrocious and immature way the past five months or so. The more realistic scenario is he's a spoiled manchild who, upon realizing the discomfort that comes with public failure, has chosen to blame the organization that made him unimaginably rich.
I know you read it in the article you linked, but what is making this most suspect is the one "loophole" if you will, that Simmons and probably his agent are tapping into. There is a provision in the collective bargaining agreement that protects players' salaries for failing to render services "if such failure has been caused by the player's mental disability." I guess it depends on the definition of disability.
I don't think Simmons' fear or problems or issues has much to do with what Doc Rivers said, what Joel Embiid said, his fear of shooting, or his fear of being exposed as not an elite player. I think he simply wants out of Philadelphia including the city, the media, and especially the fans. Do I think he has a great fear of being booed and harassed by the Philly fans? Absolutely. Do I think that is a mental problem or a mental disability?
Without sounding melodramatic, I think Simmons is inadvertently making a precedent-setting case. I think players in the future who are looking to get out of their contract and/or demand to be traded will be referring to how this case pans out. I'll say again that Adam Silver is going to have to become involved.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 22, 2021 23:27:05 GMT
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