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Post by Kapitan on Jul 30, 2021 12:37:47 GMT
The subject "Does Humor Belong in Music?" (as jk at least will recognize as the title of a 1986 Frank Zappa album) has been bubbling in my head for a few days, especially as we discussed the grunge of the '90s and its reputation as causing a somewhat joyless time in music.
Humor in (big-tent) rock music is interesting and a little bit controversial. Its use can lead to the artist being seen as a novelty act, rather than as artists to be taken seriously. Of course some artists, such as Weird Al Yankovic, literally made careers with humor, serving as much as comedians as musicians (and in his case brilliant in both roles). Spinal Tap and the Rutles were parody acts. Zappa's implicit answer was, of course, yes: he always put everything into his music, including plenty of humor of all types, from sarcasm to toilet humor.
Elsewhere the humor isn't quite so explicit. kds and I have discussed in the past that one mistake we think critics and fans make about (especially) '80s hard rock and heavy metal is missing its tongue-in-cheek, humorous aspects and instead taking it dead seriously at face value.
All this is to introduce the broad topic of humor in popular music. Do with it as you will.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 12:50:30 GMT
Yes, I think humor belongs in music.
You already touched on it, but that was a big part of the 1980s glam / hair metal scene. The songs were often silly, the music videos even sillier (usually on purpose).
Heavy metal is often looked at as a dark form of music, but there's plenty of humor. Metallica's Frayed Ends of Sanity begins with the famous Winkie Army chant from The Wizard of Oz. Anthrax released a spoofy rap thrash mash up called I'm the Man.
While not metal, Alice Cooper's brand of macabre shock rock influenced the genre, but it was always very tongue in cheek. Later on, Alice responded to comparisons with Marilyn Manson, saying "where's the humor?"
Queen were often quite cheeky. The one example that comes immediately to mind is the ending of the Live Aid / MLK inspired One Vision ("Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie fried chicken!!!).
Plenty of others that I can't really think of right now, but I think this is a good topic.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 30, 2021 14:08:47 GMT
I think, no matter what genre music, there is some place to insert humor. All of my favorite groups - all of them - used some humor along the way, in varying degrees of course.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 15:48:23 GMT
I have to respectfully disagree on your assessment of the 80s hair / glam movement. Granted, there might've been a couple bands here and there that weren't aiming to be funny, maybe Dokken whose videos probably weren't funny on purpose. But, bands like Twisted Sister, Poison, Warrant, etc were definitely in on it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 30, 2021 15:57:39 GMT
That is where it's always key to avoid overgeneralizing. What's unintentionally funny are bands who might have truly thought it was serious business to wear leather, metal spikes and studs, makeup, and sing about dragons and hell and girls and whatever. I mean, that's quite possibly a joke on them if they basically reenacted Spinal Tap without themselves seeing the humor. I'm sure there's plenty of that.
And there is a similar amount of unintentional humor in anyone trying to take some image seriously, whether it's Americana or gangsta rap.
But as kds said, at least the kinds of bands we've discussed when we were talking about it are the ones who actually did see the humor. It's not to say it was entirely a joke, either. It's just to say it wasn't presented as life-or-death, "this is important" kind of music. Where do fun and humor meet? I don't know, different places, I guess. But there can be humor without it being a joke.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 16:05:48 GMT
I think that some of the later metal bands saw the humor in the ridiculousness of singing about demons and wizards, and at the same time pay tribute to the Dios and Priests of the world, while also taking the piss a bit.
One much band, who just happen to my favorite band of the last two decades are Ghost. They wear costumes, and write songs about Satan, death, zombies, etc, but it's really all a big piss take, particularly in concert.
On another end of the spectrum, The Darkness were so over the top that when they broke in the US in 2004, many people actually thought they were a joke band. I guess I can see their point, considering their debut album closes with a power ballad about masturbation.
And, I think part of the reason Ghost and The Darkness were each very divisive bands is that some fans / critics don't like the music they love being made fun of, and other fans / critics just have sticks up their ass.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 30, 2021 17:03:35 GMT
Priest is another example of a band I think was having fun. Watching Rob Halford in the early '80s...it was like Freddie Mercury level campness, though in different ways.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 17:09:01 GMT
Priest is another example of a band I think was having fun. Watching Rob Halford in the early '80s...it was like Freddie Mercury level campness, though in different ways. Priest definitely didn't take themselves very seriously, so that was a bad example on my part. Although, the lone exception was their two disc 2008 concept album - Nostradamus. After reading the takes on the album from KK Downing and Rob Halford, I feel like the band thought this was going to be some grand artistic moment, but it pretty much wound up being Priest's answer to Music From the Elder. Rob was very much influenced by Freddie too.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 17:41:19 GMT
There's one major artist that I can't believe I forgot to mention. In fact, the humorous nature of some of his most well known songs is why he's sometimes treated more like a novelty artist rather than a talented singer / songwriter.
I'm speaking of one Jimmy Buffett. He scored a major hit with Margaritaville, and many years later guested on Alan Jackson's ode to day drinking - It's Five O Clock Somewhere. In between, songs such as Cheeseburger in Paradise, Fins, Why Don't We Get Drunk, Fruitcakes, Coconut Telegraph, Bank of Bad Habits, all the way up to Cussin' Island from his 2020 album, Buffett's catalog is full of funny fables showing an offbeat sense of humor that fans find enduring while non fans might find off putting (I'm in the former, I used to be the latter).
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 30, 2021 18:05:19 GMT
Speaking of senses of humor and being a little over the top (without taking it TOO seriously), here is a clip from a famous mid-80s Freddie Mercury interview about the costumes of the early years. The video should be cued up properly, but if you have any issues, the relevant part begins around 3:23 and carries on for 45 seconds or so.
The gist of it? "If I had the long hair and painted nails now, I'd look ridiculous! Of course, I looked ridiculous, then, too ... but it worked!"
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Post by jk on Jul 30, 2021 21:58:51 GMT
I'm still out on this subject! I suspect Sparks epitomize what I find funny in music. But I'll keep thinking...
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Post by kds on Jul 31, 2021 0:59:52 GMT
Freddie kept that sense of humor up until the end, as evidenced by the song and video I'm Going Slightly Mad.
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Post by jk on Jul 31, 2021 8:14:19 GMT
More thoughts...
I can take some (but by no means all) of Zappa's humour, even some of what might be construed as sexist (e.g., "Dinah Moe Hum"). But Beefheart's is much more up my street -- it's more subtle and his wordplay more evocative.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2021 12:57:08 GMT
I usually don't like the Zappa music that's self-consciously comedy (dirty or otherwise), and almost always think he piles it on too thick. But I do find VERY funny the "audio verite" of his hometown friends Ronnie and Kenny, or the "from the piano" dialogue. Zappa being Zappa, snippets of these can be found all over the place, from Lumpy Gravy to Civilization Phaze III.
Both are found prominently on my favorite Zappa album, which is also probably the funniest Zappa album, We're Only In It For The Money. Zappa's twin take-downs of both normie American culture and hippie counterculture at the same time is wonderful, a set of perspectives that show how unique Frank was. "Who Needs the Peace Corps?" "Let's Make the Water Turn Black," "The Idiot Bastard Son," "Harry, You're a Beast" ... very funny, one and all.
Beefheart's humor is from a whole other perspective ... or universe! I've always been delighted at the opening line of "Kandy Korn," like an offbeat television jingle: "Well they look so good, I wanna eat 'em!" To its simple melody, it's so silly.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 31, 2021 13:05:26 GMT
I keep going back to the 1970's, one of my favorite periods, and there were several hard rock bands who employed humor:
- The Ramones - The New York Dolls (on Too Much Too Soon) - Sparks - Sweet
- Slade - The Dictators - Lou Reed - Blue Oyster Cult ("You're As Beautiful As A Foot") - KISS (later were able to be a little self-deprecating) - The Doors (Other Voices and Full Circle are full of humor) - The Who - the solo Beatles
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