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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 13, 2021 4:00:01 GMT
Celebrate the News is one of those Dennis songs that I just don't get what the fuss is about. First heard it on the 1983 Beach Boys Rarities album. I don't hate it, but it just doesn't grab me one way or the other. That's the way I feel about a lot of Dennis songs - Be With Me, Never Learn Not to Love, Make it Good..half of POB. Obviously this is all just taste, so I don't mean it in a right/wrong way at all, but I think it's funny that of the ones you mentioned, I'd say something along the lines of what you say about "Celebrate the News." I also like about half of POB, but I wonder how closely our halves would match up: they may just be opposites. I think you misunderstood my comment. The ones I mentioned are the ones that don't grab me. Now Little Bird, Slip on Through, Forever, Cuddle Up, Only With You - those are classics to my ears.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 13, 2021 11:32:53 GMT
Oh, I see. I did misunderstand.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 14, 2021 5:15:25 GMT
Oh, I see. I did misunderstand. No problem, it's all good. Right?
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2021 11:15:16 GMT
Oh, I see. I did misunderstand. No problem, it's all good. Right? Of course!
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Post by kds on Jul 14, 2021 13:17:20 GMT
I'll go 8. I love Break Away, but far less a fan of Celebrate the News.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 14, 2021 13:49:29 GMT
I'm going with an 8 as well. Breakaway is an all timer that deserved much more success than it originally received. I've always thought Celebrate the News was a relatively middling song.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 14, 2021 20:27:41 GMT
I'm going with an 8 as well. Breakaway is an all timer that deserved much more success than it originally received. I've always thought Celebrate the News was a relatively middling song. All these years (since the Rarities album) I thought I was the only one who heard Celebrate as less than a masterpiece. Heard Breakaway on our local oldies station just a few minutes ago. Really lucky to have an oldies station that goes beyond the standard Surfin USA California Girl/Get Around/Good Vibes hits.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2021 20:33:37 GMT
I'm going with an 8 as well. Breakaway is an all timer that deserved much more success than it originally received. I've always thought Celebrate the News was a relatively middling song. All these years (since the Rarities album) I thought I was the only one who heard Celebrate as less than a masterpiece. I have a little pet theory that ignored, unreleased, and newly released previously unreleased (or ignored), songs tend to be overrated--at least with the Beach Boys. It seems to happen pretty often, sometimes totally justifiably (e.g. with Smile recordings) and often ... less so.
"Celebrate the News" is (in my opinion) good. For sure! But good. It's worthy of a place on an album or single, which it has. I can definitely imagine if a person were a fan of late 60s and early 70s Beach Boys throughout the decades before that era had its relatively recent newfound respect, he might be a little annoyed about it. Everyone sees the band as just Surfin USA and you're trying to promote Little Bird or This Whole World, I get it. I just think it's sometimes a matter of reputational inflation based on something other than the music alone.
(Those of you who like the song more than I do, I'm not saying you're one of those people. I fully believe that you love it, which is fine with me!)
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Post by carllove on Jul 14, 2021 21:25:27 GMT
All these years (since the Rarities album) I thought I was the only one who heard Celebrate as less than a masterpiece. I have a little pet theory that ignored, unreleased, and newly released previously unreleased (or ignored), songs tend to be overrated--at least with the Beach Boys. It seems to happen pretty often, sometimes totally justifiably (e.g. with Smile recordings) and often ... less so.
"Celebrate the News" is (in my opinion) good. For sure! But good. It's worthy of a place on an album or single, which it has. I can definitely imagine if a person were a fan of late 60s and early 70s Beach Boys throughout the decades before that era had its relatively recent newfound respect, he might be a little annoyed about it. Everyone sees the band as just Surfin USA and you're trying to promote Little Bird or This Whole World, I get it. I just think it's sometimes a matter of reputational inflation based on something other than the music alone.
(Those of you who like the song more than I do, I'm not saying you're one of those people. I fully believe that you love it, which is fine with me!)
Haha - Yep - That would be me! Then again - I just got Rarities and the Friends 20/20 twofer since I loved the “live” video of CTN, so there may come a time I grow tired of it yet!
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2021 22:01:20 GMT
I actually don't get that vibe from you at all, because your enjoyment seems real to me. What I'm talking about--and it might be an un-generous way to view people, but I'm being honest--is those people whose enjoyment of music seems to be inversely proportional to its availability or popularity. So as a song becomes more popular, or as more people hear it, those people dismiss it. But while it's rare, while it's officially unavailable? IT'S BRILLIANT!
And I say all that acknowledging that at various times in my life, it describes me quite well. It isn't how I want to approach music (or other people!) anymore, but I definitely see it in myself, especially in the past.
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Post by kds on Jul 15, 2021 2:33:48 GMT
I actually don't get that vibe from you at all, because your enjoyment seems real to me. What I'm talking about--and it might be an un-generous way to view people, but I'm being honest--is those people whose enjoyment of music seems to be inversely proportional to its availability or popularity. So as a song becomes more popular, or as more people hear it, those people dismiss it. But while it's rare, while it's officially unavailable? IT'S BRILLIANT!
And I say all that acknowledging that at various times in my life, it describes me quite well. It isn't how I want to approach music (or other people!) anymore, but I definitely see it in myself, especially in the past.
I've gotten that vibe on other BB boards, almost to the point where I feel like the 1963-66 era is almost "underrated" in some fan circles. And, that's by no means a BB fan exclusive. We've all heard the "only the pre Steve Perry Journey is good," "Metallica were great before they sold out," or other various things. Even the propping up of unreleased songs. When I first got into Floyd, I remember reading fan forums saying tracks like Scream Thy Last Scream and Vegetable Man were brilliant. They're ok, but I think there was a reason Floyd kept them in the vaults as long as they did.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 15, 2021 2:35:05 GMT
I actually don't get that vibe from you at all, because your enjoyment seems real to me. What I'm talking about--and it might be an un-generous way to view people, but I'm being honest--is those people whose enjoyment of music seems to be inversely proportional to its availability or popularity. So as a song becomes more popular, or as more people hear it, those people dismiss it. But while it's rare, while it's officially unavailable? IT'S BRILLIANT!
And I say all that acknowledging that at various times in my life, it describes me quite well. It isn't how I want to approach music (or other people!) anymore, but I definitely see it in myself, especially in the past.
I think this is particularly true of Dennis Wilson material. There's kind of an aura or mystique around Dennis these days, as there is around Gram Parsons, Gene Clark, Brian Jones, and other less celebrated artists (i.e, those not named Cobain, Hendrix, Joplin or Morrison). There's a section of fandom that loves the the guys that lived fast and died young. I honestly believe that if Carl, for example, had died early from drug abuse, people would be all over the internet praising him as a great talent. People love the stories of guys whose personal lives are train wrecks - as if that somehow enhances their artistry. Maybe it does. I mean, when was the last time Paul McCartney did anything interesting?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 15, 2021 12:00:55 GMT
I think the reappraising and appreciation of Dennis Wilson's work is legitimate and accurate. At the time of his death and for several years after, his songs weren't easily available. As was mentioned above, "Celebrate The News" appeared on that Beach Boys Rarities album and shortly after that the album was out of print. Same with Pacific Ocean Blue. While it might've been viewed as a successful solo project, that album, too, was gone for years until James Guercio woke up. There are also other songs like "Lady" which reappeared as a remixed "Fallin' In Love". And, of course, we know about Forever" being "discovered" only after John Stamos featured it on Full House. Nobody had Sunflower and I don't believe "Forever" was on any comps at the time. Actually, I think THAT'S what started the Dennis Wilson music appreciation movement. Dennis's music was very late in getting around (pun intended), but when it did, it finally got the credit it deserved.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 15, 2021 13:09:23 GMT
jk has mentioned the number of vocals on "Break Away" as being over 30. I've been thinking about whether that's really as unusual as it sounds at first mention.
I think it only is if it's simultaneous voices (which would have to mean quadruple tracking the full group plus doubled or more lead) is it really so big a deal. (It clearly wouldn't mean something like 30-part harmony, after all.)
The group liked to (at least) double all vocals, so if the full band were to sing together for a harmony background, that's six voices doubled, or 12 voices. Put a doubled lead atop that: 14 voices. Take another section of the same song and recreate the same concept but with different parts, and that's 28 voices on a song, just by having a (doubled) lead and full-group harmony background in two different sections. In this song, that could be accomplished just with the intro and then the verse.
It's around this time that they began using 16 tracks, so it would be easier to do all the various doubling and tripling, and also to accommodate different sections getting different parts without quite as much in the way of preplanning, bouncing down to make space, etc.
My point is, between doubling (or more) of most everything and the multiple sections, I don't think it's an astronomical number of voices. Because it isn't:
Brian--------------------------------------------> Al------------------------------------------------> Carl-------------------------------------------->
Bruce-------------------------------------------> Dennis------------------------------------------>
Mike --------------------------------------------> (6 voices)
But more like: Brian (doubled lead)--------| Carl (doubled lead)----|Al (doubled lead)----
Brian (doubled BG)---------| Brian (doubled BG)----| Brian (doubled BG)--
Al (doubled BG)-------------| Al (doubled BG)-------| Al (doubled BG)----- Carl (doubled BG)-----------| Carl (doubled BG)-----| Carl (doubled BG)--- Bruce (doubled BG)---------| Bruce (doubled BG)---| Bruce (doubled BG)-- Dennis (doubled BG)--------| Dennis (doubled BG)--| Dennis (doubled BG)-- Mike (doubled BG) ----------|Mike (doubled BG)-----| Mike (doubled BG)----
Three sections of a full-band background with some lead atop it, all doubled, is 42 voices recorded.
To be clear I am NOT saying the details of the above are specifically what they did on "Break Away." Some parts aren't everyone, sometimes backgrounds aren't going to be six people, some people are in there more than others, some parts are just a single voice out of the block harmonies, etc. This is just to show that you can rack up lots of voices well within the normal vocal arrangements of the group, and with the technology of the time you could record it that way.
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Post by carllove on Jul 15, 2021 16:47:26 GMT
I actually don't get that vibe from you at all, because your enjoyment seems real to me. What I'm talking about--and it might be an un-generous way to view people, but I'm being honest--is those people whose enjoyment of music seems to be inversely proportional to its availability or popularity. So as a song becomes more popular, or as more people hear it, those people dismiss it. But while it's rare, while it's officially unavailable? IT'S BRILLIANT!
And I say all that acknowledging that at various times in my life, it describes me quite well. It isn't how I want to approach music (or other people!) anymore, but I definitely see it in myself, especially in the past.
Thanks. I understand. I have run across those sort of people. I do have to admit, I think one of the reason's I love CTN so much is because I have that visual of the performance on The Mike Douglas show with Carl playing the drums and the boys (except Al) all in white shirts with dark Sailor ties. Kind of a sucker for that late 60's hippy psychedelic vibe as well. It's funny that I never learned to appreciate the early Beach Boys music until I discovered their later stuff. Then, I began to notice bits and pieces of progress towards Pet Sounds in their earlier songs. I do wonder though, if I prefer to listen to Lonely Sea, Girl Don't Tell Me and You're So Good to Me than to their more well known hits, because they are newer to me and I haven't grown tired of them, or because I just think they are better songs. If I'm still around in 30 years, maybe I will have my answer.
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