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Post by Kapitan on Jun 28, 2021 12:04:58 GMT
The Beach Boys waited about six months to release a follow-up single to their modest hit "Do it Again." During this time, Brian Wilson became less reliable and spent time in a psychiatric hospital and leaving the group trying to assemble music for an album without him.
"Bluebirds Over the Mountain," a song written and released by Ersel Hickey in 1958, Ritchie Valens in 1959, and the Echoes in 1962, was the first fruit, a recording helmed by Bruce Johnston. Johnston's recording featured a crack band, with Jim Gordon drumming, Daryl Dragon on marimba, Larry Knechtel on bass, and Ed Carter on guitar, and vocals from Mike Love, Carl Wilson, and Johnston. The recording dated back to September 1967, to be finished in October 1968 and released December 2 of that year.
The B-side was Dennis's "Never Learn Not to Love," a song originally penned by Dennis's friend Charles Manson as "Cease to Exist." Wilson bought the publishing for a sum of cash and a motorcycle and altered some lyrics, apparently to Manson's chagrin.
Peaking at #61, "Bluebirds" was the band's lowest charting single in the US since their debut, "Surfin." (It performed better in the UK, reaching #33. Inexplicably the Dutch catapaulted it to #9.) "Never Learn..." did not chart.
Please discuss and rate "Bluebirds Over the Mountain" and "Never Learn Not to Love."
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Post by kds on Jun 28, 2021 12:33:11 GMT
I really like the BB version of Bluebirds. I never really understood the dislike. The electric guitar does sound a little oddly out of place at times, but the vocals and performance are good.
And they say JK Harrison would be a controversial collaborator. Damn, Dennis, vet your buddies a little better, pal. Everything aside, I think NLNTL is a fine song.
I'm going to rate this single an 8.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 28, 2021 12:38:33 GMT
One of the (former) Manson girls has a different recollection as to the origins of "Never Learn Not to Love" than the Wiki story that says Dennis paid off Manson for the rights.
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Post by jk on Jun 28, 2021 12:54:54 GMT
I like "Bluebirds", screaming guitar and all. It and its B-side (which I first recall hearing nearly 40 years later) are part of what makes 20/20 such a captivating album. This 45 gets a nine from me.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 28, 2021 13:03:41 GMT
Jeez, the Beach Boys liked to sing about birds...
"Bluebirds Over The Mountain" was a poor choice to cover, a poor choice to put on an album, a poor choice to release as a single, and a poor choice to put on a live album. It's an average song no matter who is covering it. With "Never Learn Not To Love" - an excellent song and production - this was a rare case where the B-side was the better song/record. You know, had they cut off that long intro, "Never Learn Not To Love" could've been an A-side. I can hear it on AM radio in 1969.
With the release of "Bluebirds Over The Mountain", this band was taking a big step down in quality. They should've gone right into "I Can Hear Music". I think they truly didn't know which direction to go. I'm going with a 5.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 28, 2021 13:32:18 GMT
I like "Bluebirds Over the Mountain" in a passive kind of way. I like that they chose to do the refrain in harmony. I love the bass part. Otherwise it sounds like a strange sort of overly smoothed-over thing, a little tepid (despite guitars that say otherwise). It's like the elements are mismatched. But it's definitely not bad. If it fails, it fails with professionalism.
"Never Learn Not to Love" is both better and worse than its A-side. It's nowhere near as polished and it is (as are most things Dennis) a bit overdramatic for my taste. But it's more out of left field, and sounding less professional isn't always a bad thing. Still, no real hook to it, not much melody, just that hypnotic sort of vibe. Great if you're looking to get your cult to give you their young women and eventually slaughter some people, I suppose, but not much for repeated listenings of a less cult-oriented variety.
Maybe I'll end up in the 7 range, maybe 6.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 28, 2021 14:08:10 GMT
I like "Bluebirds Over the Mountain" in a passive kind of way. I like that they chose to do the refrain in harmony. I love the bass part. Otherwise it sounds like a strange sort of overly smoothed-over thing, a little tepid (despite guitars that say otherwise). It's like the elements are mismatched. But it's definitely not bad. If it fails, it fails with professionalism.
"Never Learn Not to Love" is both better and worse than its A-side. It's nowhere near as polished and it is (as are most things Dennis) a bit overdramatic for my taste. But it's more out of left field, and sounding less professional isn't always a bad thing. Still, no real hook to it, not much melody, just that hypnotic sort of vibe. Great if you're looking to get your cult to give you their young women and eventually slaughter some people, I suppose, but not much for repeated listenings of a less cult-oriented variety.
Maybe I'll end up in the 7 range, maybe 6.
And, in some ways, "Never Learn Not To Love" fits into the A Can Of Worms thread. But, it also begs the question in relation to your statement which I bolded. Had anyone NOT known that the song and some lyrics were written by Charles Manson, would they still get a vibe of "your cult to give you their young woman and eventually slaughter some people..."?
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 28, 2021 14:40:51 GMT
Obviously that level of detail is post hoc! But I think it has a creepy vibe regardless of that knowledge...I was just having fun with the specificity.
I'd add, you don't need Manson to make it a candidate for "Can of Worms," either.
Let's see, Dennis was arrested for statutory rape at least once, if I'm not mistaken. He also began his relationship with his niece when she was 16 years old. His sexual adventurism coupled with substance use generally wouldn't be smiled upon these days, where even with partners of age, intoxication overrules consent. How about his first date with Karen Lamm, in which he reached across the table, grabbed her breast, and said "great tits!" Dennis Wilson would be considered a repeat sex offender in today's world. He was also physically abusive to at least some degree (e.g., dragging Love by her hair). He was also known to drink a 6-pack, smoke some weed, and then go speeding through the desert in a jeep with his headlights off. He lit Lamm's Ferrari on fire.
But in my experience on BBs message boards, Dennis is usually forgiven (as is Brian, for that matter) for his moral shortcomings, even as other musicians are permanently blacklisted. I think our willingness to forgive seems to be based on how good the music is, or how attractive the musician is.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 28, 2021 14:43:29 GMT
Obviously that level of detail is post hoc! But I think it has a creepy vibe regardless of that knowledge...I was just having fun with the specificity.
I'd add, you don't need Manson to make it a candidate for "Can of Worms," either.
Let's see, Dennis was arrested for statutory rape at least once, if I'm not mistaken. He also began his relationship with his niece when she was 16 years old. His sexual adventurism coupled with substance use generally wouldn't be smiled upon these days, where even with partners of age, intoxication overrules consent. How about his first date with Karen Lamm, in which he reached across the table, grabbed her breast, and said "great tits!" Dennis Wilson would be considered a repeat sex offender in today's world. He was also physically abusive to at least some degree (e.g., dragging Love by her hair). He was also known to drink a 6-pack, smoke some weed, and then go speeding through the desert in a jeep with his headlights off. He lit Lamm's Ferrari on fire.
But in my experience on BBs message boards, Dennis is usually forgiven (as is Brian, for that matter) for his moral shortcomings, even as other musicians are permanently blacklisted. I think our willingness to forgive seems to be based on how good the music is, or how attractive the musician is.
You're right on. Great post.
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Post by kds on Jun 28, 2021 15:33:23 GMT
Obviously that level of detail is post hoc! But I think it has a creepy vibe regardless of that knowledge...I was just having fun with the specificity.
I'd add, you don't need Manson to make it a candidate for "Can of Worms," either.
Let's see, Dennis was arrested for statutory rape at least once, if I'm not mistaken. He also began his relationship with his niece when she was 16 years old. His sexual adventurism coupled with substance use generally wouldn't be smiled upon these days, where even with partners of age, intoxication overrules consent. How about his first date with Karen Lamm, in which he reached across the table, grabbed her breast, and said "great tits!" Dennis Wilson would be considered a repeat sex offender in today's world. He was also physically abusive to at least some degree (e.g., dragging Love by her hair). He was also known to drink a 6-pack, smoke some weed, and then go speeding through the desert in a jeep with his headlights off. He lit Lamm's Ferrari on fire.
But in my experience on BBs message boards, Dennis is usually forgiven (as is Brian, for that matter) for his moral shortcomings, even as other musicians are permanently blacklisted. I think our willingness to forgive seems to be based on how good the music is, or how attractive the musician is.
The ability to forgive is sometimes, infamously, based on whether or not a guy's name rhymes with Spike Glove.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 0:32:13 GMT
I like Bluebirds. It's a very good song, but certainly not great. It's catchy but there is some awkwardness to the production. It sounds just a bit juvenile, leading me to believe it could have fit in with their first or second album (with quite a different sound, of course.)
Never Learn is just a bad song, IMHO. I never liked it, even aside from the Manson backstory. Just a little too psychedelic for me. It's like Smiley Smile 2.0 or something!
For those reasons I can only bestow a 5 on this single.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 29, 2021 1:38:12 GMT
The weakest BBs single so far. Never have liked either side - the Manson connection doesn't help. First version of Bluebirds I heard was the wierd mix on Beach Boys Rarities.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 29, 2021 2:20:04 GMT
I think "Bluebirds" is a fine album track. The bass really cooks. Mike sounds good on it. The background vocals are good (but not great, like the B-side). The guitar playing sounds a little outta place, but the playing itself isn't bad. There's certainly something off, overall. Something that isn't meshing. (And, I'll say it: I think Carl sounds kinda lame on this one.) Additionally, I was going to say that it sounds like they tried very hard to turn an uncool song into a cool one, and failed. But, having just listened to the original and Valens' versions, no, the song is actually pretty cool. The original works far better for me. So, I'm not opposed to the song, or including it on 20/20 or Live in London, but I think it was a poor choice for an A-side. It's gotta be among the bottom 3 songs we've reviewed so far in this series. All that said, the outro is beautiful, and production-wise it sounds like it belongs with "Never Learn Not To Love". So, it works on that level (which is important to me). As for the B-side, I'm a much bigger fan. The backing vocals are incredible. It wouldn't be too long before the Boys lost that gear.
8/10
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2021 11:42:13 GMT
I think "Bluebirds" is a fine album track. The bass really cooks. Yes! Yes, it does. I didn't even realize Larry Knechtel played bass--I only knew of him as a keyboard player--but he really played the hell out of that bass on this one.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 29, 2021 11:58:40 GMT
I think "Bluebirds" is a fine album track. The bass really cooks. Yes! Yes, it does. I didn't even realize Larry Knechtel played bass--I only knew of him as a keyboard player--but he really played the hell out of that bass on this one. Larry Knechtel played bass on The Doors' first album:
And that's the way the Doors remained ... until the band went into Sunset Sound Recorders to lay down the tracks for its self-titled debut. While recording, producer Paul Rothchild – who would helm the band's first five LPs – decided that Manzarek's keyboard bass wasn't quite cutting it in the studio. So Rothchild brought in a member of Los Angeles' fabled Wrecking Crew, bassist and pianist Larry Knechtel, to strengthen the sound of six of the album's 11 songs. Knechtel's work went uncredited, but that's his sturdy playing on "Light My Fire," "Back Door Man" and other tracks. Knectel was probably used to staying in the shadows, getting little recognition for his contributions on record by the Beach Boys, the Mamas and the Papas and Elvis Presley, as well as smash hits such as the Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man" and Simon & Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water." He eventually joined Bread and later worked for Rick Rubin on albums by Neil Diamond and the Dixie Chicks before dying of a heart attack in 2009. According to Densmore, who clarified some points for Ultimate Classic Rock in a subsequent Facebook post, "Larry Knechtel wasn't credited because he duplicated Ray's left hand bass lines exactly. He didn't record with us on the tracks, he overdubbed later. This was a time before moog synthesizers, and Rothchild felt (correctly) that Ray's lines needed more sonic punch from a string plucked in addition to a keyboard." Though Knechtel wouldn't play on any future Doors recordings, his role on The Doors, established a trend of "ghost bassists" on all of the band's albums to come. Read More: The Secret History of the Doors' Bass Players | ultimateclassicrock.com/doors-bass-players/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
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