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Post by thedarkside on Jun 28, 2021 5:51:27 GMT
but I've always kept art and artist separate Even for the likes of, Ian Watkins ? Sometimes there is a line to be drawn.
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Post by kds on Jun 28, 2021 12:04:38 GMT
but I've always kept art and artist separate Even for the likes of, Ian Watkins ? Sometimes there is a line to be drawn. I was never a fan of his music to begin with, but if I were, I'd likely still listen to it despite everything.
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Post by kds on Jun 28, 2021 12:06:20 GMT
I voted for "it's complicated..." I'll say this - I wouldn't avoid working with Bennett solely for appearance's sake or only because he was convicted. What I mean is...I don't know Scott nor what happened then or what's happened since. So, I truly can't answer 'yes' or 'no'. If Brian and his band, as people who know him well, are comfortable working with him, then I'll accept their judgement. (At this point you might be thinking, "what about the judgement of the jury?" Well, without having followed the trial, no, I don't trust their judgement more than people who toured with him for years.) The implication, though, is that there is a line. Generally, I agree with KDS and others who talk about separating the art and artist or music from personal lives. I think that's a healthy starting point or general rule. But, I have a hard time believing that that's actually true across the board (for the vast majority of people). For relatively benign things like being a jerk or holding unpopular views? Sure. And, what I've found, when pondering this question, is the further removed (especially, in time) the objectionable behavior is from the music, the less of an effect it has. (Perhaps that has to do with the way music recordings capture a moment in time?) Anyway, bottom line, for me, it's not hard to imagine circumstances to which the art/music is spoiled/tainted. In other words, not all terrible humans are equally repulsive. I agree, and I believe I'm in the minority across the board when it comes to this type of thing. Especially in the last decade, as everything has become so divisive.
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Post by thedarkside on Jun 28, 2021 22:02:08 GMT
Even for the likes of, Ian Watkins ? Sometimes there is a line to be drawn. I was never a fan of his music to begin with, but if I were, I'd likely still listen to it despite everything. Given what he did to a ONE YEAR OLD BABY I find your answer completely disgusting. So, you have no problem, with that sort of paediphilia ?
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2021 11:23:49 GMT
I was never a fan of his music to begin with, but if I were, I'd likely still listen to it despite everything. Given what he did to a ONE YEAR OLD BABY I find your answer completely disgusting. So, you have no problem, with that sort of paediphilia ? Clearly that isn't what kds said or meant.
And considering we all listen to Pet Sounds--the sound in part inspired by a wife-murderer, conceived by a man who once offered his toddler heroin, and performed by, among others, a rapist and a mother-murderer--there is a certain amount of hypocrisy here. Which is the point of the thread. Where the line is drawn, and why, on a personal level. Obviously nobody approves of the crimes, and listening to the music isn't acceptance of the crimes of the musicians.
One thing has nothing to do with the other, which is to some extent the purpose of the thread: letting one awful thing affect your enjoyment of another, unrelated thing. The thread is a sensitive subject, and if you can't participate without veering toward personal attacks, please consider refraining from participating.
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Post by kds on Jun 29, 2021 12:10:58 GMT
I was never a fan of his music to begin with, but if I were, I'd likely still listen to it despite everything. Given what he did to a ONE YEAR OLD BABY I find your answer completely disgusting. So, you have no problem, with that sort of paediphilia ? Yeah, that's not what I'm saying at all. Listening to one's music does not equate to supporting any vile actions.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2021 17:46:34 GMT
I saw this by coincidence this afternoon. I don't know the person who said it at all and am not vouching for her generally, but since it is near the topic and interesting, I thought I'd share.
Hers isn't quite my position. I'd say I want artists to be allowed to offend, etc. I think being intentionally offensive, or acting the role of a bad boy (or full-on criminal) is mostly boring, like watching a teenager who thinks he's rebelling by spouting some sass or other to a teacher when he's really just wasting everyone's time with typical adolescent angst. But artists do need to be given leeway to do what they do artistically (and audiences the leeway to choose to engage or not).
(One of the replies is funny: "Its like buying tomatoes - most ones are the exact same size and shape and mealy and tasteless and ofc the good tomatoes are the fucked up looking heirloom varieties")
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 30, 2021 3:49:52 GMT
I'm a baseball lover, and a Pete Rose fan. From what the baseball moralists tell me, Pete Rose is the worst person in the world. Apparently what Rose did is worse than murder. So i'm in no position to throw stones and someone that still likes Phil Spector's work. Dennis Wilson did some pretty terrible things, too, yet we all seem to love him.
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Post by kds on Jun 30, 2021 12:20:44 GMT
I'm a baseball lover, and a Pete Rose fan. From what the baseball moralists tell me, Pete Rose is the worst person in the world. Apparently what Rose did is worse than murder. So i'm in no position to throw stones and someone that still likes Phil Spector's work. Dennis Wilson did some pretty terrible things, too, yet we all seem to love him. Baseball fans tend to be some of the most "holier than thou" fans on the planet. They say the same about steroids users or even a player who tends to wear his cap slightly askew.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2021 12:28:06 GMT
"Character" has played more of a role in my (dwindling) enjoyment of professional sports than it has with music. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I'm more turned off by today's athletes than I am with my old musical heroes. I don't have much of an opinion on today's musicians because I don't follow them - at all.
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Post by kds on Jun 30, 2021 12:30:41 GMT
"Character" has played more of a role in my (dwindling) enjoyment of professional sports than it has with music. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I'm more turned off by today's athletes than I am with my old musical heroes. I don't have much of an opinion on today's musicians because I don't follow them - at all. Personally, I think that's a big overblown. If you go back through sports history, unsavory characters have always been there. But, they're just more magnified now thanks to 24 hour sports networks and the internet.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2021 12:38:37 GMT
"Character" has played more of a role in my (dwindling) enjoyment of professional sports than it has with music. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I'm more turned off by today's athletes than I am with my old musical heroes. I don't have much of an opinion on today's musicians because I don't follow them - at all. Personally, I think that's a big overblown. If you go back through sports history, unsavory characters have always been there. But, they're just more magnified now thanks to 24 hour sports networks and the internet. You're absolutely right. Somebody once said that, if every player in the (whatever sport's) Hall Of Fame had to pass a test based on their character, that the Halls would be more than half empty. I'm not hypocritical about it; I can put/keep things in perspective. It's just that with the exposure we have to today's athletes, we learn a lot about them, and in some ways that's not always a good thing. It makes me want to NOT root for many of them. Maybe as I get older, my love of the music is overtaking my love of sports, even though there are...bad guys...in each. I'm not turning a blind eye to musicians, I promise.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 30, 2021 12:42:20 GMT
"Character" has played more of a role in my (dwindling) enjoyment of professional sports than it has with music. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I'm more turned off by today's athletes than I am with my old musical heroes. I don't have much of an opinion on today's musicians because I don't follow them - at all. Personally, I think that's a big overblown. If you go back through sports history, unsavory characters have always been there. But, they're just more magnified now thanks to 24 hour sports networks and the internet. That's exactly it. The change is in media. Reporters used to be friends with musicians/athletes/politicians, to have "gentlemen's agreements" on what to cover and what not to cover. So (for example) it was unseemly to report on Pres. Kennedy's serial cheating on his wife. The same kind of thing applied to some athlete or musician being arrested overnight for some bar fight. But yesterday's stars were hardly choir boys.
I mean, Steven Tyler obtained legal guardianship of a 16-year-old so he could take her across state lines and live together. He, in effect, became her dad so he could have sex with her. (He was 27.) The 70s, at least, seem overloaded with similar examples. It just didn't get the coverage it would now.
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Post by kds on Jun 30, 2021 12:43:17 GMT
Personally, I think that's a big overblown. If you go back through sports history, unsavory characters have always been there. But, they're just more magnified now thanks to 24 hour sports networks and the internet. You're absolutely right. Somebody once said that, if every player in the (whatever sport's) Hall Of Fame had to pass a test based on their character, that the Halls would be more than half empty. I'm not hypocritical about it; I can put/keep things in perspective. It's just that with the exposure we have to today's athletes, we learn a lot about them, and in some ways, that's not always a good thing. It makes me want to NOT root for many of them. Maybe as I get older, my love of the music is overtaking my love of sports, even though there are...bad guys...in each. I'm not turning a blind eye to musicians, I promise. My love of music definitely overlook my love of sports in recent years. I feel like everyone, myself included, prefers the version of the games they grew up with. In general, I find modern baseball a bore. I still enjoy my football, but I no longer devote entire Sundays to sitting on the couch in the Fall. I can't put my finger on why my love of sports has waned. Maybe the lack of free time has caused to be prioritize how I spend it. But, I really can't think of a time my life, when music didn't bring me joy.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2021 12:45:18 GMT
You're absolutely right. Somebody once said that, if every player in the (whatever sport's) Hall Of Fame had to pass a test based on their character, that the Halls would be more than half empty. I'm not hypocritical about it; I can put/keep things in perspective. It's just that with the exposure we have to today's athletes, we learn a lot about them, and in some ways, that's not always a good thing. It makes me want to NOT root for many of them. Maybe as I get older, my love of the music is overtaking my love of sports, even though there are...bad guys...in each. I'm not turning a blind eye to musicians, I promise. My love of music definitely overlook my love of sports in recent years. I feel like everyone, myself included, prefers the version of the games they grew up with. In general, I find modern baseball a bore. I still enjoy my football, but I no longer devote entire Sundays to sitting on the couch in the Fall. I can't put my finger on why my love of sports has waned. Maybe the lack of free time has caused to be prioritize how I spend it. But, I really can't think of a time my life, when music didn't bring me joy. I feel exactly the same.
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