|
Post by Kapitan on Jun 25, 2021 22:56:25 GMT
Forgive me, but while I know this is a really sensitive subject, I'm also really curious. I trust everyone here can weigh in honestly but respectfully. So...
It's arguably the case that Brian Wilson's most successful solo album in terms of new material balancing artistic triumph and mass appeal is That Lucky Old Sun. His primary collaborator on that project was Scott Bennett, who had by that time been a key member of his band for a decade. Bennett was later convicted of rape and served his sentence. He has completed that sentence and apparently continues to work, albeit under the new name of J.K. Harrison.
Without getting into the odds of any such collaboration, if Wilson wanted to work with Bennett/Harrison again on a project, would you be supportive of/interested in it? Do you think he should stay far, far away? Is there some middle ground you inhabit?
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jun 26, 2021 0:39:38 GMT
I would absolutely welcome a Wilson / "Harrison" collaboration.
I'm not trying to ignore what he did, but I've always kept art and artist separate. I listen to a ton of musicians who are, by all accounts, terrible humans. And, I didn't stop listening to TLOS after everything went down.
That said, I 100% understand why Team Brian would stay away.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Jun 26, 2021 1:18:50 GMT
The man made a mistake, but he's done his time.
Sure, bring it on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 1:38:57 GMT
Oh wait....I saw the title and thought this was a SMiLE thread!
Anyway, while I'm here, I agree with the above comments. An artist's personal life generally does not effect that person's talent. I don't see any reason to abort a possible collaboration on the basis of personal issues.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jun 26, 2021 1:41:20 GMT
I voted for "it's complicated..."
I'll say this - I wouldn't avoid working with Bennett solely for appearance's sake or only because he was convicted. What I mean is...I don't know Scott nor what happened then or what's happened since. So, I truly can't answer 'yes' or 'no'. If Brian and his band, as people who know him well, are comfortable working with him, then I'll accept their judgement. (At this point you might be thinking, "what about the judgement of the jury?" Well, without having followed the trial, no, I don't trust their judgement more than people who toured with him for years.)
The implication, though, is that there is a line. Generally, I agree with KDS and others who talk about separating the art and artist or music from personal lives. I think that's a healthy starting point or general rule. But, I have a hard time believing that that's actually true across the board (for the vast majority of people). For relatively benign things like being a jerk or holding unpopular views? Sure. And, what I've found, when pondering this question, is the further removed (especially, in time) the objectionable behavior is from the music, the less of an effect it has. (Perhaps that has to do with the way music recordings capture a moment in time?) Anyway, bottom line, for me, it's not hard to imagine circumstances to which the art/music is spoiled/tainted. In other words, not all terrible humans are equally repulsive.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jun 26, 2021 1:50:52 GMT
The man made a mistake, but he's done his time. Probably not for this thread, but that's a notion that I've increasingly come to disagree with. Doing time doesn't make anything right. It doesn't absolve anyone. It's just punishment. (And, chances are, it's either too much or too little.) Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jun 26, 2021 1:58:21 GMT
I didn't stop listening to TLOS after everything went down. Neither did I. Just to expand/clarify my post a little more, I don't associate what happened after TLOS with TLOS. But, potentially, future collaborations could be affected.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jun 26, 2021 2:43:51 GMT
I didn't stop listening to TLOS after everything went down. Neither did I. Just to expand/clarify my post a little more, I don't associate what happened after TLOS with TLOS. But, potentially, future collaborations could be affected. It honestly wouldn't bother me. Although, what would be a tad odd would be if JK Harrison resumed his role in Brian's band.
|
|
|
Post by jk on Jun 26, 2021 8:20:35 GMT
Remove the exclamation mark after the "Yes" and that option gets my vote. I confess I've never really delved into who does (or did) what in Brian's "live" band. On the other hand, I was recently converted to TLOS. So really, I'm not against his reentry into the world of recording. I remember getting pilloried at Smiley for suggesting that the topic devoted to SB's act should be moved from the main section to the Sandbox. I was told in no uncertain terms that "this is the most important Beach Boys news in years!" Thankfully, I wasn't the only poster who felt it should be moved and so into the Sandpit it went. Well, Uncle Phil killed someone and I still love his music. Gesualdo killed two people and his madrigals sound as magical as ever. I'm with kds in keeping art and artist separate (except perhaps in the case of Hitler and Mussolini). So "Yes", but sans point d'exclamation.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jun 26, 2021 11:36:32 GMT
The man made a mistake, but he's done his time. Probably not for this thread, but that's a notion that I've increasingly come to disagree with. Doing time doesn't make anything right. It doesn't absolve anyone. It's just punishment. (And, chances are, it's either too much or too little.) Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents. I'd love to discuss this. Politics thread?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jun 26, 2021 11:44:39 GMT
I went with yes. It's with the caveat that Brian wants to work with him, mind you, and (if he were to rejoin the band live) that everyone else was OK with him, too.
From a musical standpoint, he really did seem to get along well with Brian. Not only versatile in what he can do, but obviously personally Brian felt OK with him: as devoted as the 'mints have been to his music, as long as he had worked with Foskett, it has always been interesting to me how he chose Bennett as a collaborator.
But yes, I am OK with it because he has taken the punishment that the state gave him. Who is better off if he doesn't work (be it with Brian or otherwise)? Doesn't help his victim any. Doesn't help him, obviously. And doesn't help fans of the music.
Though, frankly, I don't think there's any real chance of this. It was just a thought exercise. He'd be dragged through the ringer of public (and especially media and social media) opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 26, 2021 12:40:11 GMT
Well, Uncle Phil killed someone and I still love his music. I'm with kds in keeping art and artist separate... Those two sentences kind of sum up my feelings.
First, I wouldn't be interested in another Bennett/Wilson, but not because of the reasons that this thread is addressing. I don't think Brian would collaborate with Scott Bennett again. I don't think Brian should collaborate with Scott Bennett again. It's too risky. There's too much to lose and not enough to gain. It's "not Brian", at least at this stage in his career/life, to do something like that. And, he doesn't need Scott Bennett anyway, though that's beside the point.
And, I guess that's Scott Bennett/J.K. Harrison's real punishment, or the continuation of his sentence. He might be finished with the legal system (except for his probation and sex offender designation), but he'll continue to serve his sentence - on and off the court if you will - for the rest of his life.
And that makes me think of a sports' analogy, which I think is applicable to Scott Bennett's situation. Recently in professional sports, and for some reason in mostly the NFL, some players have been found guilty of sexual assault, battery, spousal abuse, and other related crimes against females. What happens is, the player is found guilty, either in a court of law or the court of public opinion, the NFL suspends the player, and usually the player is traded or released from their team. Now stop right there and compare that situation to Scott Bennett. That's basically what happened to Bennett. However, it doesn't stop there. The sports' player usually gets a second chance and is picked up by another team, for two reasons. First, the hometown fans would rebel and not tolerate the player to remain with the team, and the franchise doesn't want to be associated with the player anymore for obvious reasons. And, second, I guess in most situations, agree or disagree, most people/players still have talent, still have something to offer - and deserve a second chance. It's not the best solution but, right now, it's the only one the leagues have.
So, Scott Bennett was suspended/fired/traded, ultimately "released" from the Brian Wilson team, and now he's on his second chance. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Oh, one last thing. As I alluded to in my first sentence, if I were to boycott or stop listening to my music collection based on the character or criminal record of the artist, I'd have to throw a large part of it away! So, even though I wouldn't be interested, I'd still be interested, if you know what I mean. Hey, it's still Brian Wilson music. Well, some of it.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jun 26, 2021 13:19:43 GMT
Remove the exclamation mark after the "Yes" and that option gets my vote. I confess I've never really delved into who does (or did) what in Brian's "live" band. On the other hand, I was recently converted to TLOS. So really, I'm not against his reentry into the world of recording. I remember getting pilloried at Smiley for suggesting that the topic devoted to SB's act should be moved from the main section to the Sandbox. I was told in no uncertain terms that "this is the most important Beach Boys news in years!" Thankfully, I wasn't the only poster who felt it should be moved and so into the Sandpit it went. Well, Uncle Phil killed someone and I still love his music. Gesualdo killed two people and his madrigals sound as magical as ever. I'm with kds in keeping art and artist separate (except perhaps in the case of Hitler and Mussolini). So "Yes", but sans point d'exclamation. Gee, I'm trying to remember if I said anything in that thread. My instinct is that I thought it was 'on topic' but I probably didn't agree with how some posters behaved. Thanks for bringing up those examples, JK. Spector is the perfect example of what I was trying to get across. He's a man who became increasingly unwell over time. He committed murder 40 years after the music he created. To my music listening ears, it might as well have been an entirely different person or universe. As for Hitler, I also agree with you. What if he had written and recorded music while holed up in his bunker in 1945? There's NO way I could listen to that and completely separate the man from the music. And, frankly, I don't know how anyone could. I think some people scoff at such examples or analogies as being unreasonable, unfair, or too extreme, but I think they often prove a legitimate point. For me, Manson is someone whose recordings too closely associate with his crimes; therefore, I can't listen to his recordings and completely separate the music from the man. The fact that the subject matter of the songs reek of his ideology (which played a direct role in his cult and crimes) doesn't help! To that end, despite truly enjoying "Never Learn Not To Love" and "Be With Me", on occasion my enjoyment is slightly hindered due to the lyrical content and its association with Manson. It's a matter of degree, it's complicated...
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jun 26, 2021 13:36:37 GMT
Probably not for this thread, but that's a notion that I've increasingly come to disagree with. Doing time doesn't make anything right. It doesn't absolve anyone. It's just punishment. (And, chances are, it's either too much or too little.) Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents. I'd love to discuss this. Politics thread? Sure. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts. But yes, I am OK with it because he has taken the punishment that the state gave him. Who is better off if he doesn't work (be it with Brian or otherwise)? Doesn't help his victim any. Doesn't help him, obviously. And doesn't help fans of the music.
While I obviously have reservations about your first point, that doesn't mean I disagree with your other points - far from it. That said, and I don't mean to be unseemly, but...are you paying a convicted rapist to give your teenage daughter music lessons? I think not. You'd have to know the person really, really well, and believe that they're innocent or not a threat. Again, as it pertains to the topic at hand as well, it's complicated. The circumstances make all the difference.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 26, 2021 14:14:14 GMT
Spector is the perfect example of what I was trying to get across. He's a man who became increasingly unwell over time. He committed murder 40 years after the music he created. To my music listening ears, it might as well have been an entirely different person or universe. As for Hitler, I also agree with you. What if he had written and recorded music while holed up in his bunker in 1945? There's NO way I could listen to that and completely separate the man from the music. And, frankly, I don't know how anyone could. I think some people scoff at such examples or analogies as being unreasonable, unfair, or too extreme, but I think they often prove a legitimate point. For me, Manson is someone whose recordings too closely associate with his crimes; therefore, I can't listen to his recordings and completely separate the music from the man. The fact that the subject matter of the songs reek of his ideology (which played a direct role in his cult and crimes) doesn't help! To that end, despite truly enjoying "Never Learn Not To Love" and "Be With Me", on occasion my enjoyment is slightly hindered due to the lyrical content and its association with Manson. It's a matter of degree, it's complicated... Yes, unfortunately, facts/history/happenings do creep into the listening experience and affect the...enjoyment. It almost like a curse. The more you read, watch, and ultimately know, the more baggage you sometimes have to fight through.
|
|