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Post by Kapitan on Jun 20, 2021 15:49:58 GMT
It's so hard for me to watch all this 1963--and especially 62!--love, because (as I've said in the past) my personal affection for their music really doesn't begin until bits and pieces in '63. So the 1962 stuff, I'd just skip it all. I think I said when we reviewed the debut album that if that were all there was, there is no way I'd be a Beach Boys fan. Zero chance.
And that isn't me judging anybody else, just me saying what I enjoy.
1963 does get into at least strong material as we proceed. It doesn't fit with peak (and so Golden Age) for me, but it's at least on that trajectory. I'd personally be more likely to include those years after '66 up through Holland than to go earlier, but again, that's mostly just because of my personal preference. (A LOT of my favorite Beach Boys music is '67-'72.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 20, 2021 18:36:10 GMT
It's so hard for me to watch all this 1963--and especially 62!--love, because (as I've said in the past) my personal affection for their music really doesn't begin until bits and pieces in '63. So the 1962 stuff, I'd just skip it all. I think I said when we reviewed the debut album that if that were all there was, there is no way I'd be a Beach Boys fan. Zero chance.
And that isn't me judging anybody else, just me saying what I enjoy.
1963 does get into at least strong material as we proceed. It doesn't fit with peak (and so Golden Age) for me, but it's at least on that trajectory. I'd personally be more likely to include those years after '66 up through Holland than to go earlier, but again, that's mostly just because of my personal preference. (A LOT of my favorite Beach Boys music is '67-'72.)
I basically feel the same way that you do about the Surfin' Safari album; it's not a favorite by any means. But, as I alluded to above, there are probably a couple of songs - "Surfin'", "Surfin' Safari", "409", maybe "Cug-A-Lug", and maybe even "Little Girl (You're My Miss America)" - that make 1962 worth including. It's a bit of a reach, but the earliest recordings of "Surfer Girl" occurred in 1962, too...I think. It just makes sense, to me anyway, to include 1962 because it was the start, and I wouldn't necessarily want to omit the year because it didn't have the quantity of great songs like the following year(s). Bits and pieces, bits and pieces...
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 20, 2021 18:49:39 GMT
It's so hard for me to watch all this 1963--and especially 62!--love, because (as I've said in the past) my personal affection for their music really doesn't begin until bits and pieces in '63. So the 1962 stuff, I'd just skip it all. I think I said when we reviewed the debut album that if that were all there was, there is no way I'd be a Beach Boys fan. Zero chance.
And that isn't me judging anybody else, just me saying what I enjoy.
1963 does get into at least strong material as we proceed. It doesn't fit with peak (and so Golden Age) for me, but it's at least on that trajectory. I'd personally be more likely to include those years after '66 up through Holland than to go earlier, but again, that's mostly just because of my personal preference. (A LOT of my favorite Beach Boys music is '67-'72.)
I basically feel the same way that you do about the Surfin' Safari album; it's not a favorite by any means. But, as I alluded to above, there are probably a couple of songs - "Surfin'", "Surfin' Safari", "409", maybe "Cug-A-Lug", and maybe even "Little Girl (You're My Miss America)" - that make 1962 worth including. It's a bit of a reach, but the earliest recordings of "Surfer Girl" occurred in 1962, too...I think. It just makes sense, to me anyway, to include 1962 because it was the start, and I wouldn't necessarily want to omit the year because it didn't have the quantity of great songs like the following year(s). (Now I'm just being argumentative for fun. No hard feelings here.)
But "the start" is irrelevant to golden age! The whole point of a golden age is some acknowledgement of evolution, change, growth, diminution, and such. A specific peak. Otherwise, does every band/artist's golden age begin with their debut? If not, why not? It always, by definition, is the "start."
And also, the songs you mention? I like "409," but not that version--more later, live versions. And the others, I don't really like at all. So I just can't do it on (perceived) quality.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 20, 2021 22:41:37 GMT
There was a similar poll on SSMB: "If You Could Only Keep the pre-1966 or post-1966 albums...?" I thought that was a cool idea because it removed Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" from the equation. To tip my hand here, I'll tell you upfront that I still chose pre-1966. Now, this was purely a subjective poll (although, there's the added factor of post-1966 including more material (and more diverse material). By the way, that poll is currently 40-19 in favor of post-1966.
The question here is a little different. Golden Age has a specific meaning that I think really only applies to the mid-60s period. But, I also happen to think it's the best era and it's my favorite era, so I've got no qualms! The only issue is precisely when does it start and end. For my money, it starts with "Surfin' USA" and ends with "Good Vibrations". So, roughly a 4 year period: 1963-66.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 0:58:44 GMT
There was a similar poll on SSMB: "If You Could Only Keep the pre-1966 or post-1966 albums...?" I thought that was a cool idea because it removed Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" from the equation. To tip my hand here, I'll tell you upfront that I still chose pre-1966. Now, this was purely a subjective poll (although, there's the added factor of post-1966 including more material (and more diverse material). By the way, that poll is currently 40-19 in favor of post-1966. The question here is a little different. Golden Age has a specific meaning that I think really only applies to the mid-60s period. But, I also happen to think it's the best era and it's my favorite era, so I've got no qualms! The only issue is precisely when does it start and end. For my money, it starts with "Surfin' USA" and ends with "Good Vibrations". So, roughly a 4 year period: 1963-66. Ok, let's back up for a second. Maybe we need to reach an agreement as to what constitutes a "Golden Age". I don't think it necessarily entails what era we personally favor. I took it to mean the "official" Golden Age. That's why my own answer was in two parts: the official Golden Age and my personal Golden Age. The Beach Boys were a bit "green" in 1962, but they became immensely popular very quickly that year. Those first two Capitol singles are timeless. By contrast, look at some of the bands cited in the "Your Time is Gonna Come" thread. I wouldn't say the early years of most of those groups were part of their Golden Age. Just my nickel's worth....
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Post by B.E. on Jun 21, 2021 1:18:31 GMT
Right. I think we are in agreement regarding what constitutes the/a Golden Age. I just decided to be a little more exclusive. But, I’m not arguing with those who reached back to “Surfin’ Safari” or forward to “Heroes And Villains”. (Nor Kapitan who was even more exclusive than I.) The reason I didn’t include the 1962 material is I just don’t think it’s quite on the same level as what came after (generally-speaking) nor was it as commercially successful. On a personal level, I’m a big Surfin Safari fan and defender. We all pretty much seem to be in agreement, overall.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 21, 2021 4:41:14 GMT
When you say "Golden Age", I think of an era that combines commercial success with artistic growth. So I say 1962-1966. Now, on a purely artistic angle, I would stretch that up to 1973. And yet, looking at it from yet another angle, I could easily say 1962-1989. Still Cruisin' was the last gasp of creativity from Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Bruce as a collective.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 21, 2021 11:09:54 GMT
And yet, looking at it from yet another angle, I could easily say 1962-1989. Still Cruisin' was the last gasp of creativity from Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Bruce as a collective. Now that, I could not get behind at all. To have a Golden Age span 27 years and include numerous dry periods, flops, near breakups, etc., just because there was a big hit at the end of it? Sorry, I can't do that.
I agree with your definition of Golden Age, but that's what leads me to 64-66. I could see 63-66.
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Post by kds on Jun 21, 2021 14:14:45 GMT
When you say "Golden Age", I think of an era that combines commercial success with artistic growth. So I say 1962-1966. Now, on a purely artistic angle, I would stretch that up to 1973. And yet, looking at it from yet another angle, I could easily say 1962-1989. Still Cruisin' was the last gasp of creativity from Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Bruce as a collective. I can understand taking the era up to 1973, but I can't see stretching it to 1989. I've posted before that I truly believe Holland was The Beach Boys' final album as a true creative force. After that, with the possible exception of Love You, I feel like they were either chasing their own past or current trends.
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Emdeeh
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Post by Emdeeh on Jun 21, 2021 18:55:00 GMT
The golden age for me is 1963 (Surfin U.S.A) through 1973 (Holland and In Concert).
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Post by jk on Jun 21, 2021 19:33:22 GMT
The golden age for me is 1963 ( Surfin U.S.A) through 1973 ( Holland and In Concert). I still stick with 1963-66 but it's very cool to see SUSA getting a mention. It's the one and only BB album to showcase the Carl-Dave guitar machine in full flight. This is a facet of BB music that tends to get overlooked. The "sea of instrumentals" often comes in for criticism but I regard it as the glue holding the album together and giving it its signature sound.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 21, 2021 19:40:36 GMT
The golden age for me is 1963 ( Surfin U.S.A) through 1973 ( Holland and In Concert). I still stick with 1963-66 but it's very cool to see SUSA getting a mention. It's the one and only BB album that sees the Carl-Dave guitar machine in full flight. This is a facet of BB music that tends to get overlooked. The "sea of instrumentals" often comes in for criticism but I regard it as the glue holding the album together and giving it its signature sound. I'd agree that it gives a signature sound. It's just that for me, it's not a signature I care to spend much time with.
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Post by jk on Jun 21, 2021 19:43:09 GMT
I still stick with 1963-66 but it's very cool to see SUSA getting a mention. It's the one and only BB album that sees the Carl-Dave guitar machine in full flight. This is a facet of BB music that tends to get overlooked. The "sea of instrumentals" often comes in for criticism but I regard it as the glue holding the album together and giving it its signature sound. I'd agree that it gives a signature sound. It's just that for me, it's not a signature I care to spend much time with. Oooh, I finished editing that post just in time! Fair play, Cap'n, to each their own.
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Post by kds on Jun 21, 2021 19:44:31 GMT
I will say that the singles from SUSA also caused me to include 1963 in my Classic Era for the band.
I'm not as into their surf instrumentals though. In the right mood, I find them enjoyable, but they're not tracks I revisit often.
To be honest, I feel like that about surf instrumentals in general. I've listened to some Dick Dale albums that were recommended, and I'll confess I grew a little bored three tracks in.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 21, 2021 19:45:52 GMT
Indeed. As I've said (in this thread, I think), if that were the basis for everything else they did going forward, I simply wouldn't be a fan. I'd be off on some other band's message board (probably mostly wandering off topic there, too...).
But that's just me: obviously, that sound was very popular, and many of those early songs are still loved as classics. So I don't expect anyone to join me in the opinion. (It's only in my adulthood that I even came to like the mid-60s pre-Pet Sounds music a la "I Get Around," "Don't Worry Baby," etc.!)
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