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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 14:42:07 GMT
YES.
Let's say you're a musician in a band trying to make a living. You're a grown-up, not 20, 22, but 30 or so. It's the '70s. Speaking honestly, who would you rather be in a band with of Brian, Mike, Dennis, Al, and Carl?
You can romanticize genius and forgive the "crazy, tortured" aspect that so often is lumped together with it ... but try working productively beside a mentally ill, drug-addled Brian Wilson. Try working productively beside a raging alcoholic, drug-addled, unreliable Dennis Wilson. For his artistic flaws--and of those, there are many--Mike at least appears to have been professional, reliable, and business-minded, even if his business instincts weren't necessarily great.
My personal thoughts exactly. If people are going to bash Mike, realistically they'd have to bash the other Beach Boys (or a few key members). Nobody is innocent in the history of the band. Mike may have made a few crappy statements over the years, but at least he kept a pretty clear head the whole time. People love to hate, especially these days, and it's silly to have a boycott mentality when it comes to one of your favorite bands. All of the surviving members have earned the right to perform in the next reunion, and it wouldn't be the Beach Boys without them. Of course Blondie and Ricky should be in it too. As for Stamos, I'm neutral on that one. He could be in it or not. Oh, and McGrath....so definitely not. His one goofball moment with Mike doesn't give him any qualification as a Beach Boy.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 5, 2021 15:06:42 GMT
it's silly to have a boycott mentality when it comes to one of your favorite bands. Absolutely.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 5, 2021 15:07:59 GMT
To be clear, my little question about "who would you want to be in a band with" was meant more hypothetically than requiring an answer, and certainly requiring a single guy. The real point was just that everyone has his faults. For me, musically, it's not even a question: Brian Wilson is a supreme talent. But in the 1970s, it would be one thing to pine for more Brian ... and quite another to be in the band with him, begging, goading, bribing him to contribute, and being repeatedly disappointed.
"Oh, what? Brian's passed out on the beach beside Harry Nilsson and Alice Cooper again (when he was supposed to be at a band meeting)? OK, we'll send someone..."
Sounds like a great job, no? No.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 5, 2021 15:15:41 GMT
Yeah, I understood that. I just thought it fun to entertain and answer.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 5, 2021 15:23:16 GMT
By the way if I had to pick ONE of the guys to work with in the '70s? Probably Carl. He struck the best balance between interesting artistic perspective, instrumental competence and vocal excellence, almost impeccable dependability (minus that mid-late 70s period of a couple years), a commercial sensibility ... I think he'd be the guy.
Brian and Dennis - already spoke about. (Dennis's artistic muse also isn't something I shared.)
Mike - just personally grating, not at all artistically satisfying for me (even though yes, his early 70s work was quite good).
Al - doesn't bring a lot to the table creatively, doesn't seem to be a big ideas guy. But were we to say it's MY band and I just want somebody to carry out orders? Al would be the guy: competent instrumentally, top-notch vocally, no troubles or issues behaviorally/chemically.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 15:25:10 GMT
To be clear, my little question about "who would you want to be in a band with" was meant more hypothetically than requiring an answer, and certainly requiring a single guy. The real point was just that everyone has his faults. For me, musically, it's not even a question: Brian Wilson is a supreme talent. But in the 1970s, it would be one thing to pine for more Brian ... and quite another to be in the band with him, begging, goading, bribing him to contribute, and being repeatedly disappointed.
"Oh, what? Brian's passed out on the beach beside Harry Nilsson and Alice Cooper again (when he was supposed to be at a band meeting)? OK, we'll send someone..."
Sounds like a great job, no? No.
Once again, agreed. Not to sideline the convo, but whenever I watch that well known SNL skit with Brian, Belushi, and Aykroyd I feel like its a metaphor for how hard it must have been to coax Brian out of bed and down to the studio to contribute some of his magic.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 5, 2021 17:38:30 GMT
There are times I've thought it might have been better to be an Ed Carter or Carli Munoz in those years than to be, say, Al Jardine. At least all they had to do was know their stuff, be on time and ready to play, and nail it night after night (in front of adoring fans). Al especially had to deal with being a real band member, trying to make decisions, trying to be productive, trying to set a course, and finding it not so pleasant.
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Post by beachboystalkmatt on Jun 16, 2021 14:15:23 GMT
I have seen Brian live many times and he abs his band are fantastic! But a highlight for me was the 50th anniversary show I attended. It’s so much more authentic when Mike sings his original leads. All the member have their “stuff”, but they are better together!
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Post by kds on Jun 16, 2021 14:24:01 GMT
I have seen Brian live many times and he abs his band are fantastic! But a highlight for me was the 50th anniversary show I attended. It’s so much more authentic when Mike sings his original leads. All the member have their “stuff”, but they are better together! That's how I feel too. Since attending my first ever BB related show, actually nine years ago yesterday, on the C50 tour, I've seen Brian, Al, and Blondie five times, Mike and Bruce (once with David) three times, and Al twice. None of those shows could touch the C50 show.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 16, 2021 14:28:19 GMT
I have seen Brian live many times and he abs his band are fantastic! But a highlight for me was the 50th anniversary show I attended. It’s so much more authentic when Mike sings his original leads. All the member have their “stuff”, but they are better together! I think there will always be a percentage of fans who prefer that Brian stay solo and do things - and "things" covers a lot - his way. However, I also think the overwhelming percentage of fans prefer the guys...together...rather than two separate functioning bands. Yes, it has been spun over the years, "Hey, at least this way we can see two great, SEPARATE bands/shows every year..." But, as you stated, just look at the 50th Anniversary concerts, and that old cliche' about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts (or something like that) always comes to mind.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 16, 2021 14:42:18 GMT
While I think that together tops separate, I also now am pretty convinced that it's irrelevant. The time has passed for much more than the 60th anniversary promotional shows. I no longer believe Brian is much more than a symbol on stage, and at their ages, the rest are not so far behind (to varying degrees). His band would add more to any C60 than he will, other than that nebulous "authenticity."
Had they stuck together from '12 onward, that would have been great.
Had they stuck together from '96 onward, that would have been better.
Had they stuck together from '88 onward, that would have been better yet.
Oh hell, maybe they should've just broken up in '77.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 16, 2021 15:03:08 GMT
While I think that together tops separate, I also now am pretty convinced that it's irrelevant. The time has passed for much more than the 60th anniversary promotional shows. I no longer believe Brian is much more than a symbol on stage, and at their ages, the rest are not so far behind (to varying degrees). His band would add more to any C60 than he will, other than that nebulous "authenticity."
Had they stuck together from '12 onward, that would have been great.
Had they stuck together from '96 onward, that would have been better.
Had they stuck together from '88 onward, that would have been better yet.
Oh hell, maybe they should've just broken up in '77.
In the big picture, yes, sadly (or NOT for some), it has become irrelevant. However, every couple of years - and now we're there again - it becomes relevant all over again. Here we are, with our dreams in the sky (stealing from Dennis), and there's yet another chance for the guys to be together, albeit for a relatively shorter time this time. But, hey, it's something, and maybe they can figure out a way to make Cousin Brian more than a symbol on stage.
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Post by kds on Jun 16, 2021 15:29:30 GMT
I have seen Brian live many times and he abs his band are fantastic! But a highlight for me was the 50th anniversary show I attended. It’s so much more authentic when Mike sings his original leads. All the member have their “stuff”, but they are better together! I think there will always be a percentage of fans who prefer that Brian stay solo and do things - and "things" covers a lot - his way. However, I also think the overwhelming percentage of fans prefer the guys...together...rather than two separate functioning bands. Yes, it has been spun over the years, "Hey, at least this way we can see two great, SEPARATE bands/shows every year..." But, as you stated, just look at the 50th Anniversary concerts, and that old cliche' about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts (or something like that) always comes to mind.
I'd say that size of the venues that C50 played as opposed to the venues played by Brian, Mike & Bruce, and especially Al show that it's a pretty small percentage of fans (likely with a percentage of Mike haters) who prefer Brian Wilson remain a solo artist.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 17, 2021 23:42:06 GMT
I honestly do not need to see Brian on stage in front of his adoring fans again. He looked so miserable on the last few tours; it's starting to remind me of the Brian's Back era, where he just sat at the grand piano, looking like he'd rather be anywhere else. If Mike was smart, though (and I'm not saying he isn't), he'd bring Al onboard. Al's voice has aged far better than the others, and it would make the show so much better to have the original lead singer of Help Me Rhonda onstage with the guys again. Bruce? You know he's gonna be there, adjusting his mic stand, clapping along, and wearing shorts. If you're lucky, though, you get a good vocal from him on Do You Wanna Dance, and maybe he'll even favor us with Disney Girls or I Write the Songs. David? Sure. He's not a face the casual fans will recognize, but he still plays great. Blondie? Uh, I don't know what place Debbie Harry has in a Beach Boys reunion... Stamos - doesn't matter to me one way or another. McGrath - I've got a heart of stone....glass...regarding him.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 17, 2021 23:49:16 GMT
If Mike was smart, though (and I'm not saying he isn't), he'd bring Al onboard. Al's voice has aged far better than the others, and it would make the show so much better to have the original lead singer of Help Me Rhonda onstage with the guys again. Smart or not, Mike had been trying to get rid of Al since the early 90s, at least. And there's no indication it had anything to do with Al's voice or what the fans want(ed).
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