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Post by jk on May 31, 2021 8:19:23 GMT
Listening to my favourite SMiLE mix this morning, I was reminded of a remark by UEF at Smiley that "there's no high-hat on most Beach Boys records, supposedly. BW doesn't/didn't like the sound and instructed Dennis/Hal accordingly". The only example I can think of right now is in the fuzzed-out coda to the 2fer version of "Can’t Wait Too Long", where it’s used as just another percussion instrument.
In fact, Brian seems to have avoided cymbals in general. "Fire/Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow" may be the only BW music to use cymbal crashes to accentuate the one -- until we get to "Johnny Carson" with its iconic lone smash, although this really only accentuates itself.
Any thoughts on the subject, folks?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 1:11:34 GMT
In South Bay surfer it appears that Brian wants Dennis to hit a crash and Dennis doesn't do it.
I think your analysis and your instincts about this are right on.
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Post by jk on Jun 7, 2021 22:07:35 GMT
In South Bay surfer it appears that Brian wants Dennis to hit a crash and Dennis doesn't do it. I think your analysis and your instincts about this are right on. Sorry, Prof, I somehow missed this first time round. Yes, a crash on the one in "SBS" would make sense -- in any other hands than those of Brian Wilson, I suspect. (Or do you have proof of Brian's wish, in which case I take that back immediately!) The Honeys 45 that was adapted for the BB album has no crashes and indeed no cymbals either, although at 1:16 you can hear what might be a hi-hat:
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 7, 2021 22:11:11 GMT
I recall someone--Nelson Bragg?--discussing this at some point. I'll see if I can find it, as well as to think through and contribute more meaningfully than this little trifle!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 3:37:30 GMT
Oh in that song Brian says "crash" and I always assumed it meant he wanted Dennis to finish that particular bar with a crash, and when I hear that I'm always waiting for a crash, but Dennis doesn't make a crash so I figured he just didn't hear Brian or understand what exactly he meant. Or have I just misunderstood the entire thing. In South Bay surfer it appears that Brian wants Dennis to hit a crash and Dennis doesn't do it. I think your analysis and your instincts about this are right on. Sorry, Prof, I somehow missed this first time round. Yes, a crash on the one in "SBS" would make sense -- in any other hands than those of Brian Wilson, I suspect. (Or do you have proof of Brian's wish, in which case I take that back immediately!) The Honeys 45 that was adapted for the BB album has no crashes and indeed no cymbals either, although at 1:16 you can hear what might be a hi-hat:
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Post by jk on Jun 8, 2021 7:57:26 GMT
Oh in that song Brian says "crash" and I always assumed it meant he wanted Dennis to finish that particular bar with a crash, and when I hear that I'm always waiting for a crash, but Dennis doesn't make a crash so I figured he just didn't hear Brian or understand what exactly he meant. Or have I just misunderstood the entire thing. Ah, now I'm not a lyrics person so I missed that! I rather think Brian meant his "crash" to be enough in itself, just like "rough" elsewhere -- just conjecture on my part, of course.
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Post by jk on Jun 8, 2021 11:18:01 GMT
Another example of cymbals -- or rather one cymbal -- is in "Catch A Wave", where Hal provides the "wave" effect:
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Post by jk on Jun 9, 2021 21:45:17 GMT
Another song with a single cymbal used to stunning effect is "Don't Talk":
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 10, 2021 13:50:08 GMT
Here is the instrumental track from our single of the week, "Darlin," which as far as I can tell doesn't include a single cymbal crash. There is a tambourine throughout (maybe along with a closed hi-hat, I am not sure about that). But not one crash, even to punctuate those great little fills.
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Post by jk on Jun 11, 2021 22:36:32 GMT
I tweaked and reposted this topic at EH and was gently but firmly put in my place by saltymarshmallow, a BB scholar of immense erudition whose opinions I respect:
"It's an interesting topic, this, because that's an observation I've quite often seen brought up in Brian musical discourse where it's usually taken for granted as a part of the established lore, and I'm not all that sure it's true.
"Brian's never been heavily into splashy cymbals, sure. But hi-hats? They're all over his music. Everywhere. The loaded exception, really, is the two year stretch from Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile. It's that period in particular where Brian's drum patterns are more orchestrally minded and 'written', and that's when the cymbals become extremely few and far between. Especially Smile. From the close of Pet Sounds to Lei'd in Hawaii, you can count those tracks on one hand.
"Look to before that, and after, and far more often than not there's a hi-hat in use somewhere. Most of Wild Honey, most of Friends, most of Sunflower, and anything at all with Ricky Fataar at the kit. Most of Dennis' appearances on 15 Big Ones or Love You are the same. Nearly all of the early stuff. It wasn't even uncommon for Brian to overdub an extra hi-hat for emphasis - see Good Time, Add Some Music, Back Home, It's OK, Palisades Park.
It's loud rock drumming that Brian tended to steer clear of. Cymbals have otherwise usually been an open option in his arrangement toolkit, to some degree. It's not so much that he's averse to them as it's that he's aware of how they can affect the texture of a track with a lot of moving parts."
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 11, 2021 22:51:52 GMT
I don't disagree, but would note that a hi-hat is more like a tambourine than it is like a cymbal.
Yes, yes, it is literally two cymbals. I know. I get that. But a tambourine is dozens of little cymbals! My point being, yes, it's the crash or ride cymbals that classic BW avoids, and when they're used, they tend to be used for swells and such. Sure, it's part of lore, but not least of which because the drummers and percussionists who have worked with him have discussed it as such.
Does that mean Brian forbade cymbals in his songs? No. As noted, he incorporated hi-hats (and tambourines...) and occasional use otherwise. But it is certainly a preference, a trend, a generalization, that is on the whole, true.
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