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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 0:44:55 GMT
Ultimate Classic Rock published an article about a month ago on Paul McCartney's solo career where five contributors discussed his last great, last good, and first bad solo albums. I thought it might be fun to steal that idea and apply it to the Beach Boys. I say, interpret however you'd like (i.e. what you think constitutes "great", "good", and "bad") but try your best to explain your reasoning. That's really the fun of it, I think - the "why" we choose what we choose.
THE BEACH BOYS
Last Great - The Beach Boys Love You (1977)
This is a really tough choice, because I fully understand that this album is not for everyone most people. But, I happen to be one of those hardcore fans who love it. I usually rate it a '9' and it typically falls somewhere in my top 5-10 BBs albums. I certainly can't say that for any album post-LY. If I were to be more rigid/objective in my selection, I'd reach back for 1970's Sunflower.
Last Good - That's Why God Made The Radio (2012)
Okay, that was easy! Despite the warm feelings of an unlikely and long overdue reunion, I've never really felt this was a truly great album on par with their former glory. But, a good album? Undeniably! The real question in BBs world is probably, "what was their last good album prior to TWGMTR?" For me, I think it's The Beach Boys (1985), barely.
First Bad - M.I.U. Album (1977)
This is the category I find most interesting. I can see fans taking it in all sorts of directions. For me, the easy thing to do would just be to hold out for Summer In Paradise, an album I find to be truly terrible. It might not always be obvious based on my posting, but I'm more of a "I like everything" type of fan than not. Even the late 70s and early 80s stuff - I still give them favorable ratings as I enjoy (to some degree) most every song. But, that said, I thought I'd be a little more objective here, as I do think that MIU is the weakest of this era and comes closest to being outright bad, IMO. For me, songs like "Belles of Paris", "She's Got Rhythm", "Hey Little Tomboy", "Kona Coast", and "Peggy Sue" just don't live up to the Beach Boys standards. Even stuff I enjoy, like "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", I mean, objectively, how good is that? Beyond the songs, the production is bland - there's a lack of fun, of life. There's too much Altbach and not enough Wilsons. Nothing personal, but as a result it just doesn't sound enough like the Beach Boys, which I suppose we come more accustomed to as the group continued on in this splintered state for decades to come, relying more and more on outsiders.
I'm also going to answer these questions for the SOLO albums, shortly...
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Post by kds on May 31, 2021 1:02:22 GMT
Last Great - Holland - IMO, this is the last stand by The Beach Boys as a truly creative group. For the most part, they spent the rest of their career chasing ghosts.
Last Good - TWGMTR - I love this album. Almost great.
First Bad - Smiley Smile - Other than the two big singles, this is....not good.
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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 1:09:21 GMT
SOLO
Last Great - Pacific Ocean Blue (1977)
Here I decided to be rigid again. I could easily have persuaded myself to choose That Lucky Old Sun, Brian Wilson Presents Smile, or Brian Wilson, but ultimately I think those are probably more accurately described as very, very good albums. POB, on the other hand, I think it's great. Think of it as the difference between a '9' and a high '8'. Along those lines...
Last Good - No Pier Pressure (2015)
As with TWGMTR, another easy one for me. I don't hate Mike's recent solo albums, but I don't think they are particularly good either. Again, to put it in numerical form, NPP is a 7, Mike's albums are in the 4-5 range.
First Bad - Going Public (1977)
I get some enjoyment out of it, but not enough to consider it a good album. Not much to say about it, really. (Oh, I didn't consider his early '60s stuff.)
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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 1:21:29 GMT
First Bad - Smiley Smile - Other than the two big singles, this is....not good. You're certainly not alone there, and I respect your selection, but their 60s material was pretty much off-limits for me in this category. Most disappointing? Career-altering? That type of thing, yeah. But, I just love the homespun atmosphere, and the vocals. The singing is just too good to be bad. Songs like "Wind Chimes" are still so beautiful (actually, more so, in this form).
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Post by jk on May 31, 2021 8:31:49 GMT
Oooff! I'm going to have to think hard about this. This is really putting my strategy of diplomacy to the test... ... Well, how about this? - For years, I regarded Surf's Up as the last great, or even last real, Beach Boys album. So I'll go for that for now. - I agree with those advocating TWGMTR as the last good one. - First bad... I prefer first that failed to register. That would be M.I.U.. It's just never interested me, maybe because of my light aversion to the Maharishi. So there's my answer, for what it's worth.
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Post by kds on May 31, 2021 12:35:43 GMT
First Bad - Smiley Smile - Other than the two big singles, this is....not good. You're certainly not alone there, and I respect your selection, but their 60s material was pretty much off-limits for me in this category. Most disappointing? Career-altering? That type of thing, yeah. But, I just love the homespun atmosphere, and the vocals. The singing is just too good to be bad. Songs like "Wind Chimes" are still so beautiful (actually, more so, in this form). One of the things I actually dislike most about Smiley is that it was released during their prime years.
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Post by Kapitan on May 31, 2021 13:25:40 GMT
I say, interpret however you'd like (i.e. what you think constitutes "great", "good", and "bad") but try your best to explain your reasoning. That's really the fun of it, I think - the "why" we choose what we choose. Fun thread idea. And I strongly second your point quoted above. That's how I feel about almost all of our topics! I find the "why" much more interesting than just lists, which just leave me wanting to ask follow-up questions (for the "why," mostly).
But if it's a fun idea, it's a tough one, too. These boundaries are so blurry and "bad" is an especially tough one to define for me.
Last Great: Surf's Up. For me this is the last album with its share of really top notch quality material and really good production and diverse songwriters' input and really good performances across the board. No hits, but it's a question of albums, not singles. I did debate Holland, Love You, and TWGMTR here, but Surf's Up is where I've settled.
Last Good: Easy, considering what I said above: TWGMTR. Rather than say why it's good, I'll say what kept it from being great. While I believe it is better than we had a reasonable right to expect, its seams are showing. What I mean is, obviously this wasn't an instance of "the guys got back together, wrote and performed music like they used to, and doggone it, they still had the magic!" Instead it's mostly a Brian Wilson solo album helmed by Joe Thomas with some other material and some strategically placed, prominent vocal lines making it seem like a full-band effort. There is something about the obviousness of that, that doesn't sit well. Plus, the voices are no longer what they were, and some of the material is shaky. But it's also got some amazing material, and it was very well produced.
First Bad: Surfin' Safari. There's nothing here I love, there's barely anything here I like. The lush productions weren't there yet. It's a few decent songs and mostly amateurish throwaways.
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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 14:17:52 GMT
TWGMTR will probably be unanimous (unless someone selects it as Last Great).
After discussing the Beach Boys, I'd be interested in everyone's solo picks.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2021 17:37:01 GMT
Last Great--SUNFLOWER. I almost picked SURF'S UP, because that is the last album to contain truly great songs like Feel Flows, Til I Die, Long Promised Road, and the title track. But it also contains a few clunkers, which I'll pass on listing right now. SUNFLOWER is the last album that has consistent high quality throughout. All peaks, no valleys. Every album after is spotty at best. IMO, of course.
Last Good--THAT'S WHY GOD MADE THE RADIO. Yeah, I'll jump on that bandwagon. I don't own that album and have never listened to it all the way through, but what I have heard off of it sounds pretty good. I'll take everybody's word for it on this one.
First Bad--SMILEY SMILE. I was tempted to say SURFIN' SAFARI because that album to me is merely a few singles surrounded by filler. But I understand the Boys had to start somewhere and it didn't take them long to get rolling with more consistency. SURFIN' SAFARI was sort of a practice run, and even though I rarely listen to it I can sit through it if necessary, as primitive as it sounds. SMILEY SMILE, on the other hand is just repulsive to me. Two great singles, two ok album tracks, and the rest....meh. IMO that album was just a bad idea all the way around.
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Post by jk on May 31, 2021 19:25:10 GMT
On to the solo stuff, all by BDW, as it happens: - Well, since I can't vote for Orange Crate Art (or can I?) the last great solo album for me is Brian Wilson (1988). - The last good solo album is That Lucky Old Sun, which took me literally years to "get". It would have been No Pier Pressure if it weren't for "The Last Song". - The first (in my world) disposable solo album was Imagination. So there you go.
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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 19:34:04 GMT
SMILEY SMILE, on the other hand is just repulsive to me. Two great singles, two ok album tracks, and the rest....meh. IMO that album was just a bad idea all the way around. Which two do you consider the ok album tracks?
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Post by B.E. on May 31, 2021 19:41:04 GMT
- The first (in my world) disposable solo album was Imagination. Is this a stamp of approval for Bruce's Going Public, Mike's Looking Back With Love, and various other prior solo projects? Or are you only familiar with Brian, Dennis, and Carl solo albums?
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Post by jk on May 31, 2021 21:40:26 GMT
- The first (in my world) disposable solo album was Imagination. Is this a stamp of approval for Bruce's Going Public, Mike's Looking Back With Love, and various other prior solo projects? Or are you only familiar with Brian, Dennis, and Carl solo albums? No!!!! Yes!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 2:05:22 GMT
SMILEY SMILE, on the other hand is just repulsive to me. Two great singles, two ok album tracks, and the rest....meh. IMO that album was just a bad idea all the way around. Which two do you consider the ok album tracks? Veggies and With Me Tonight.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 1, 2021 11:06:02 GMT
LAST GREAT: The Beach Boys Love You - 14 songs, the most on any Beach Boys' album (except for 15 Big Ones). ALL Brian Wilson compositions. Great songwriting and arrangements. The lead vocals are spread out. It's fun, quirky, honest, and "very Brian". I never get tired of it. Oh, it ain't perfect - Brian's vocals are the worst of his career, the sequencing could be improved, and I still have a problem using the original vocals on "Good Time". But, overall, I still think Love You eeks into greatness.
LAST GOOD: Yes, that would be That's Why God Made The Radio, which is the obvious choice, but I'll go 2nd LAST GOOD, which would be M.I.U Album (and don't give me L.A. Light Album ). Much improved vocals, especially Brian's, but Al is also at the top of his game. There's some different styles of music on M.I.U, but it does manage a Beach Boys' feel; a little forced but welcomed. The sad thing is the album could've been improved with just another song or two - and they were available. But, yes, I would consider M.I.U. a good album.
FIRST BAD: 15 Big Ones - I so want to go with Smiley Smile because it was a disaster on so many levels that the group never recovered from. However, as B.E. noted, with the 1967 vocals - and an album with "Good Vibrations" and "Heroes And Villains" - it is hard to sink into "bad" territory. Anyway, while I actually like a lot of 15 Big ones, overall, it is pretty bad. Brian's and Dennis' vocals are terrible, and the other guys' aren't much better. The oldies chosen were confusing and just plain bad. The sequencing was poor, as was the album cover! The only thing that makes me question a "bad" rating is Brian's arrangements. They were outstanding. I think he was "into" the album, or as "into" as he could be at that time. He was still arranging at a very high level, which would continue with Love You. But, if you look at the band's catalogue up to that point (1976), 15 Big Ones just sticks out as being...obviously beneath the rest.
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