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Post by jk on May 24, 2021 15:45:36 GMT
My pre-BWPS Smiles closed with "You're Welcome." Always.
Interesting. My one go-to SMiLE mix begins with it.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 24, 2021 15:46:16 GMT
My pre-BWPS Smiles closed with "You're Welcome." Always.
Yours and a lot of peoples - and I never understood why. "You're Welcome" has a perfect fade-in and inviting lyrics for an opening track. And, I never understood why people would close with it, especially those who had "Surf's Up" (or any other track for that matter) right before it. It makes "You're Welcome" sound so anti-climactic, like, why are you tacking this on the end.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 24, 2021 15:51:11 GMT
My pre-BWPS Smiles closed with "You're Welcome." Always.
Interesting. My one go-to SMiLE mix begins with it. Yes! You start out with "You're Welcome" and follow it with either "Heroes And Villains" or "Worms" and we're off to the races. Bliss.
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Post by Kapitan on May 24, 2021 16:27:27 GMT
My pre-BWPS Smiles closed with "You're Welcome." Always.
Yours and a lot of peoples - and I never understood why. "You're Welcome" has a perfect fade-in and inviting lyrics for an opening track. And, I never understood why people would close with it, especially those who had "Surf's Up" (or any other track for that matter) right before it. It makes "You're Welcome" sound so anti-climactic, like, why are you tacking this on the end. It can't go first for me. To put anything before "Our Prayer" feels downright sacrilegious. There has maybe never been a better opener for a piece of pop music, in my opinion.
But it feels exactly like a hidden-track epilogue. Not exactly part of the album proper, but a little afterward. The fade-in works because of that. You're done. The weight of "Surf's Up" is still impressed upon you ... and in fades a cute, light, digestible response to your unspoken "thank you" for the great music. You're welcome.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on May 24, 2021 17:10:44 GMT
H&V should have been released with the Cantina version and You're Welcome is a very questionable choice for a B side. I'm feeling generous and will give it a 7/10, though.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 24, 2021 20:53:29 GMT
I'm with the Sheriff on this one. 8. You're Welcome would make an excellent intro track for Smile. I don't know where that leaves Our Prayer, though. H&V is a great record, but it's the first one where I think "it could have been so much greater". And it doesn't move me emotionally like the best Beach Boys songs do. It's gonna be interesting to rate the early 70's singles - they really weren't a singles band at that point.
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Post by Kapitan on May 24, 2021 21:01:31 GMT
It's gonna be interesting to rate the early 70's singles - they really weren't a singles band at that point. As I was posting for this one, I thought "this is the end of the Beach Boys as a great singles band." Not that they didn't have some great songs, and even some great singles, after this. But it really is different from here on out. Feels different, anyway.
Of course, this is also the era when singles began to be surpassed by albums more generally, too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 25, 2021 0:30:23 GMT
You're Welcome would make an excellent intro track for Smile. I don't know where that leaves Our Prayer, though. ...(cough)...end the SMiLE album with Our Prayer into Surf's Up.
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Post by jk on May 25, 2021 8:23:23 GMT
I'm with the Sheriff on this one. 8. You're Welcome would make an excellent intro track for Smile. I don't know where that leaves Our Prayer, though. H&V is a great record, but it's the first one where I think "it could have been so much greater". And it doesn't move me emotionally like the best Beach Boys songs do. It's gonna be interesting to rate the early 70's singles - they really weren't a singles band at that point. I've no idea how many mixes begin with "You're Welcome" but the one I know and love leads straight into the rising vocal harmony figure later recycled in "Goin' On" (the last note of one is the first note of the other -- a stroke of genius). This Aquarian SMiLE mix (which daringly and in my view justifiably leaves out "GV") used to be on Vimeo but can now only be found on YouTube in reverse!
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Post by Kapitan on May 25, 2021 13:44:44 GMT
The first sentence of "Heroes and Villains" is mentioned in several interviews and documentaries as a mouthful that VDP matched to Brian's descending melody.
But I was thinking this morning about how many words the song has ... and how many of them occur in just the first 39 seconds! The lyrics (copied and pasted from Google/LyricFind) are below, with the first 39 seconds' worth bolded. (It takes another 3 minutes to get through the rest, several of which are just repetitions of "heroes and villains, just see what you've done." I've italicized the other non-repetitive lyrics.)
I've been in this town so long that back in the city I've been taken for lost and gone And unknown for a long long time Fell in love years ago With an innocent girl From the Spanish and Indian home Home of the heroes and villains Once at night Catillian squared the fight And she was right in the rain of the bullets that eventually Brought her down But she's still dancing in the night Unafraid of what a dude'll do in a town full of heroes and Villains Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Stand or fall I know there Shall be peace in the valley And it's all an affair Of my life with the heroes and villains My children were raised You know they suddenly rise They started slow long ago Head to toe healthy wealthy and wise I've been in this town so long So long to the city I'm fit with the stuff To ride in the rough And sunny down snuff I'm alright By the heroes and Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Heroes and villains Just see what you've done
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Post by kds on May 25, 2021 14:09:46 GMT
That makes for a very difficult song to sing.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 23:07:40 GMT
I could go on and on for pages about what an amazing song H&V is (and couldn't we all, right?), but I've never felt it was single material. I first heard the song on oldies radio back in the 1980's and it stuck out like a sore thumb. First you're listening to music from the Association, some Byrds, maybe some Lovin' Spoonful....and then this weird Beach Boys song comes on. Whaaat is this? I remember at the wedding reception of my first marriage, requesting that my sound guy play some Beach Boys, and he played a few tracks from Made in the USA. Everyone was having a good time, many of my friends and family were dancing to the tunes...until H&V came on. Then everyone sort of stopped in their tracks and looked at the sound guy. I caught his attention and gave him the "cut" signal. He discreetly faded out the track and promptly moved on to something else. Anyhow, it's a wonderful song. So much going on, even a bit surreal in some parts. But I think it works so much better in the context of SMiLE. And that is one of the reasons I prefer the Cantina version. As for You're Welcome, I'm not a fan. To me, it's a bit of a throwaway. So, as a single I give this a 7.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 26, 2021 0:05:31 GMT
I could go on and on for pages about what an amazing song H&V is (and couldn't we all, right?), but I've never felt it was single material. Anyhow, it's a wonderful song. So much going on, even a bit surreal in some parts. But I think it works so much better in the context of SMiLE. I posted something similar above.
I think Brian and the group were in a quandary with Smiley Smile. Yes, "Heroes And Villains" does fit better on SMiLE, but that bird had flown. Now what were they going to do? Which song other than "Heroes And Villains" was single material? "Vegetables"? That's about the only other song that had a chance, but it wasn't hit record material. Mike and Brian even came up with a song - "Gettin' Hungry" - for a single (and for some mind-boggling reason released it as Brian Wilson & Mike Love).
I still think Brian was/is proud of "Heroes And Villains" as a song and as a work of art. We're all familiar with the story of Brian hand-delivering the record to a DJ and an astrologer choosing the specific date. He believed in it. He had high hopes for it. It's funny, but I think the success of "Heroes And Villains" was ultimately found in the live performances. The band really made it work live, and it became somewhat of a concert staple. It's the only SMiLE/Smile Smile song other than "Good Vibrations" that was performed live consistently.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 26, 2021 2:58:47 GMT
The first sentence of "Heroes and Villains" is mentioned in several interviews and documentaries as a mouthful that VDP matched to Brian's descending melody.
But I was thinking this morning about how many words the song has ... and how many of them occur in just the first 39 seconds! The lyrics (copied and pasted from Google/LyricFind) are below, with the first 39 seconds' worth bolded. (It takes another 3 minutes to get through the rest, several of which are just repetitions of "heroes and villains, just see what you've done." I've italicized the other non-repetitive lyrics.)
I've been in this town so long that back in the city I've been taken for lost and gone And unknown for a long long time Fell in love years ago With an innocent girl From the Spanish and Indian home Home of the heroes and villains Once at night Catillian squared the fight And she was right in the rain of the bullets that eventually Brought her down But she's still dancing in the night Unafraid of what a dude'll do in a town full of heroes and Villains Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Stand or fall I know there Shall be peace in the valley And it's all an affair Of my life with the heroes and villains My children were raised You know they suddenly rise They started slow long ago Head to toe healthy wealthy and wise I've been in this town so long So long to the city I'm fit with the stuff To ride in the rough And sunny down snuff I'm alright By the heroes and Heroes and villains Just see what you've done Heroes and villains Just see what you've done
It's a very hard song to sing. The amount of words, and the direction of the melody line. I tried it a couple times then gave up!
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Post by kds on May 26, 2021 12:13:31 GMT
I'm with the Sheriff on this one. 8. You're Welcome would make an excellent intro track for Smile. I don't know where that leaves Our Prayer, though. H&V is a great record, but it's the first one where I think "it could have been so much greater". And it doesn't move me emotionally like the best Beach Boys songs do. It's gonna be interesting to rate the early 70's singles - they really weren't a singles band at that point. I agree. The Beach Boys tried to transition to more of an album band, that's why I mentioned that I think GV and H&V represent the end of a Golden Era.
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