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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 22:52:57 GMT
I think left to Brian's own devices, we'd get nothing. I think left to just Brian and Mike, we'd get disappointing results. I think, with Brian and Mike and a handful of sensitive, great musicians (a la Darian Sahanaja, Paul Von Mertens, Jeff Foskett, Scott Totten, and Billy Hinsche), we'd have a chance. I don't necessarily disagree with that. But it strikes me as a different thing than Brian having tricks left up his sleeve, like the musical magician we like to occasionally imagine him still to be.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 21, 2021 0:13:03 GMT
I think left to Brian's own devices, we'd get nothing. I think left to just Brian and Mike, we'd get disappointing results. I think, with Brian and Mike and a handful of sensitive, great musicians (a la Darian Sahanaja, Paul Von Mertens, Jeff Foskett, Scott Totten, and Billy Hinsche), we'd have a chance. I don't necessarily disagree with that. But it strikes me as a different thing than Brian having tricks left up his sleeve, like the musical magician we like to occasionally imagine him still to be. Yes, but with either of those three scenarios, he could still have something left. I'm starting with that assumption. I think there will always be some tricks, riffs, feels, pieces, whatever somewhere in Brian's muse, albeit in dwindling returns. How many and what quality is the question, of course. Is he completely...dried up? Who knows. Is there enough left for an album's worth of songs, or a single song for crissakes? Again, who knows. While I prefer to be optimistic and willing to find out, no, I can't make a definitive prediction just what the guy has left. What I do know (well, think ), it ain't gonna come from Brian himself or just Mike and Brian, and I think everybody knows that, too. Even Mike. Now more than ever, it's a matter of the right environment, the right people getting "it" out of him. It's always been that way with the solo Brian, but obviously now more than ever.
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Post by B.E. on May 21, 2021 0:23:19 GMT
Sorry, I haven't read this thread, but I'm not sure Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce, collectively, could sing as well as I'd like at their age. This is a more recent thought of mine, but, TWGMTR was nearly ten years ago. These guys are 80 now. If they did record, I'd want them all to be prominent, and sing together, warts and all, but they might not be able to deliver. (Keep in mind, the main attraction for me is hearing them sing together, and I'd rather have new material than not, but I have my doubts...)
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Post by Kapitan on May 23, 2021 11:43:15 GMT
Sorry, I haven't read this thread, but I'm not sure Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce, collectively, could sing as well as I'd like at their age. This is a more recent thought of mine, but, TWGMTR was nearly ten years ago. These guys are 80 now. If they did record, I'd want them all to be prominent, and sing together, warts and all, but they might not be able to deliver. (Keep in mind, the main attraction for me is hearing them sing together, and I'd rather have new material than not, but I have my doubts...) I mostly agree, except maybe the "warts and all" part.
My reasoning is this, and yes, I've said it before. It's one thing when a Tom Waits, a Leonard Cohen, a Bob Dylan has a deteriorating voice. It can be gruff, it can be a little out of tune, and it's fine. Charming, even. Lends it gravitas. But considering the Beach Boys are known for singing tight harmonies, I don't think the same luxury applies.
That's where "warts and all" falls apart. There is nothing enjoyable about voices failing to hold together in tight, extended harmonies. It's not about failing to understand aging, or being too hard on them: it's just a practical reality. And I don't value the guys singing together over the singing sounding good just like I wouldn't want to see 82-year-old Oscar Robertson take the court in an NBA game or 84-year-old Robert Redford and 83-year-old Marlo Thomas in a steamy nude scene.
The good news is, I don't think it's as simple as one or the other. The choices aren't badly singing old Beach Boys and Robo-Beach Boys Autotuned to death. What I'd hope for is basically a continuation of what these guys have been doing for decades: doling out parts to people who can manage them. Obviously we're talking about a Beach Boys finale album, so I'd fully expect the principals to handle as much as they could, but whatever parts require a Darian, a Matt, an Ike, I hope they aren't shy about that.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 23, 2021 13:32:13 GMT
Sorry, I haven't read this thread, but I'm not sure Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce, collectively, could sing as well as I'd like at their age. This is a more recent thought of mine, but, TWGMTR was nearly ten years ago. These guys are 80 now. If they did record, I'd want them all to be prominent, and sing together, warts and all, but they might not be able to deliver. (Keep in mind, the main attraction for me is hearing them sing together, and I'd rather have new material than not, but I have my doubts...) I mostly agree, except maybe the "warts and all" part.
My reasoning is this, and yes, I've said it before. It's one thing when a Tom Waits, a Leonard Cohen, a Bob Dylan has a deteriorating voice. It can be gruff, it can be a little out of tune, and it's fine. Charming, even. Lends it gravitas. But considering the Beach Boys are known for singing tight harmonies, I don't think the same luxury applies.
That's where "warts and all" falls apart. There is nothing enjoyable about voices failing to hold together in tight, extended harmonies. It's not about failing to understand aging, or being too hard on them: it's just a practical reality. And I don't value the guys singing together over the singing sounding good just like I wouldn't want to see 82-year-old Oscar Robertson take the court in an NBA game or 84-year-old Robert Redford and 83-year-old Marlo Thomas in a steamy nude scene.
The good news is, I don't think it's as simple as one or the other. The choices aren't badly singing old Beach Boys and Robo-Beach Boys Autotuned to death. What I'd hope for is basically a continuation of what these guys have been doing for decades: doling out parts to people who can manage them. Obviously we're talking about a Beach Boys finale album, so I'd fully expect the principals to handle as much as they could, but whatever parts require a Darian, a Matt, an Ike, I hope they aren't shy about that.
I agree, Kapitan. I've read opinions advocating for Rick Rubin to come in and produce an album like he did with Johnny Cash. Now, I love those Rubin-produced American Recordings with Cash, and there was a time when I, too, advocated for Rubin as a Beach Boys' producer. However, over time I've reconsidered. Those Cash sessions consisted of mostly stripped arrangements - sometimes consisting of just an acoustic guitar - and a ragged, albeit emotional vocals from an obviously ailing Johnny Cash. Yes, it worked...for Cash and Rubin. But, that's exactly what has NOT worked well for The Beach Boys (see 15 Big Ones and Love You), and while simple arrangements worked in the past (see Friends and Wild Honey), I think it's safe to say that full productions/full arrangements are The Beach Boys AND Brian Wilson's forte. Maybe a track or two on an album with stripped arrangements would sound nice, but at this stage in their career, with their voices, no, I wouldn't do more than that.
Along those lines, I've also read people calling for another Beach Boys Party-like album. You know, just get the guys in the studio in a relaxed environment with a couple acoustic guitars and let them sing. Frankly, I think that would be disastrous. The guys have not been able to pull off something like that for decades, and back then, you also had Carl Wilson's voice in the mix. I shudder to think about something like that with an 80-year old Brian and Mike. They would have to supplement the mix with additional voices, but that would just water things down, and what's the point. I do agree with those who are...wary...of what the guys would sound like in 2022, pushing 80. I get it. But, please, don't leave them exposed. There are other ways to "produce" their vocals, to get that Beach Boys' sound (cough...Joe Thomas ).
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Post by Kapitan on May 23, 2021 14:14:32 GMT
I think "stripped down" for the band at this point means the likes of "Isn't It Time," where the arrangement seems simple enough but upon close inspection, there's a lot going on in the production to make it sound like they just sat around with a uke, singing it straight through.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:49:33 GMT
How about the 5 beach boys doing the song surf city. Brian sings on the original. It would be great to see that actually become a beach boys song with Allen and Mike and Dave and Bruce. I wanna hear surf city by The Beach Boys
Also is it just a rumor that's passed on on critically or is it true that Dean is not singing on the original recorded version of surf city? Maybe he and Jan later re recordings and I hate to think of Dean Torrence whom I admire so much as not being on the original recording but if it's true it's true.
I've read it in books but books can be copying from other erroneous books
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