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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 16:55:13 GMT
Because the Beach Boys '21 thread really is meant to cover a broad variety of news and happenings about the band, I thought I'd try a new thread to deal specifically with the possibility of a final Beach Boys studio album (as hinted by Al), and our hopes, wishes, thoughts, speculations related thereto.
We were talking in that other thread about the kind of album it would be likely to be, mostly either previously unreleased or obscure solo releases. So I started thinking of what songs those might be, only using music we actually know and have. Obviously, I'd prefer things that we have never heard--things that are as new as possible, at least to us--but for this exercise I used things I could reference.
My hope would be that each song would be rerecorded for this project--not just with some new vocals added to existing tracks, which would make the production really inconsistent across the album. Ideally, too, I'd love to see the Beach Boys' touring band (whoever it ends up being) do the music as opposed to an assortment of session guys or guest stars.
I'd assume we'll be looking at something like 40-50% Brian, 30-40% Mike, and 10-30% "the rest," more or less. Here are some ideas I had.
Brian Wilson Everything I Need - previously released Wilson/Asher song done by Wilson Phillips and Jeff Foskett
Must Be a Miracle - previously unreleased Wilson/Paley sessions song. Nice ballad.
My Marianne - previously unreleased, very '60s girl-group sounding Wilson/Paley sessions song.
Run James Run - released on Playback, but really a great Beach Boys song waiting to come out.
Some Sweet Day - see RJR above.
The First Time - released in a live version on Live at the Roxy
This Isn't Love - see TFT above, plus instrumental version on Songs Without Words
Mike Love Paradise Found - previously released on 1981's Looking Back With Love, could be really interesting with BBs harmonies
Pisces Brothers - previously released on Unleash the Love, has been played live, seems likely to be a Mike choice
Too Cruel - previously released on UTL
10,000 Years Ago - previously released on UTL
Al Jardine And I Always Will - previously released on A Postcard From California (2010)
Drivin' - previously released on APFC, included Brian Wilson and David Marks, fitting song for the Beach Boys
Islands in the Sun - the one unheard song on the list, but hey, Al likes it and it apparently exists...and it's not Waves of Love Waves of Love 7.0 - mostly kidding, but you know Al is going to push it (again)...and actually the most recent version is pretty good
Other Candidates Heaven (Carl Wilson) - previously released on Carl Wilson and online by Brian Wilson, would be nice with BBs harmonies...
River Song, Pacific Ocean Blues, Rainbows (Dennis Wilson with M Love or C Wilson, respectively) - all previously released on Pacific Ocean Blue and all co-written by other Beach Boys, if they do "Heaven" I'd expect a Dennis song, too. Each of these could be great.
Contributions from Bruce Johnston or David Marks, or (less likely) Blondie Chaplin
Covers - God forbid, unless it's something great and current like Sugar Ray.
What do you say? Do we have a legit Beach Boys album in here? Especially if there are a few truly new songs? I can see it now, The Beach Boys, Sunset (2022, Capitol Records).
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Post by kds on May 20, 2021 17:43:48 GMT
Even though its already basically a BB song, I might nominate Don't Fight the Sea.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 20, 2021 17:58:12 GMT
Excellent! Yes, exactly. It is possible to mine the vaults for some remaining quality material...if they want to. A coupla things:
- I think you meant that "Pisces Brothers", "Too Cruel", and "10,000 Years Ago" were from Unleash The Love, not Looking Back With Love. That being said, I don't think I would go with previously released solo stuff - by any member. I realize most of it is obscure and only diehards have heard it, but I just think it cheapens a "new" release. Yes, those tracks would be improved with a full compliment of Beach Boys' voices, but I also don't think the songs themselves are strong enough to re-record/re-release. Even with adding new vocals, would it really improve the songs that much? I know I'm taking a chance in expecting QUALITY unreleased material (why wasn't it released in the first place?), but I'm only talking about one or two songs from each member.
- I seem to be leaving Blondie out of my thoughts, wishes, hopes, etc. It's not intentional, and I SHOULD be including him - especially with this type of proposed album, a group album. Yes, I'm sure Blondie would have at least one strong song to contribute, and his unique vocal(s) would definitely benefit a new album, keeping in mind that he was a "real" Beach Boy, too.
- I love "Heaven" but it's almost too perfect and I wouldn't mess with it. Again, I would stay away from previously released solo songs, but I'd have no problem if they could come up with a solid unreleased track from Carl and/or Dennis. Let's be honest here, this would be a unique album, and taking chances might be warranted. I'm sure not everybody would approve of including Carl and Dennis, but I think I would.
- I still think David Marks could/should contribute a strong, rockin' song to the album. I've heard a few of David's solo songs and I think, with the right production, it would fit.
- As much as I want a new album, I would not want a full, oldies/cover album, even if it was comprised of old rock & roll tunes. Now, I do think a cover or two would be totally appropriate - it's part of the group's history. Which oldies they choose to cover is the big question. They have not always made the best decisions in this area.
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 18:06:38 GMT
Excellent! Yes, exactly. It is possible to mine the vaults for some remaining quality material...if they want to. A coupla things:
- I think you meant that "Pisces Brothers", "Too Cruel", and "10,000 Years Ago" were from Unleash The Love, not Looking Back With Love. That being said, I don't think I would go with previously released solo stuff - by any member. I realize most of it is obscure and only diehards have heard it, but I just think it cheapens a "new" release. Yes, those tracks would be improved with a full compliment of Beach Boys' voices, but I also don't think the songs themselves are strong enough to re-record/re-release. Even with adding new vocals, would it really improve the songs that much? I know I'm taking a chance in expecting QUALITY unreleased material (why wasn't it released in the first place?), but I'm only talking about one or two songs from each member.
- I seem to be leaving Blondie out of my thoughts, wishes, hopes, etc. It's not intentional, and I SHOULD be including him - especially with this type of proposed album, a group album. Yes, I'm sure Blondie would have at least one strong song to contribute, and his unique vocal(s) would definitely benefit a new album, keeping in mind that he was a "real" Beach Boy, too.
- I love "Heaven" but it's almost too perfect and I wouldn't mess with it. Again, I would stay away from previously released solo songs, but I'd have no problem if they could come up with a solid unreleased track from Carl and/or Dennis. Let's be honest here, this would be a unique album, and taking chances might be warranted. I'm sure not everybody would approve of including Carl and Dennis, but I think I would.
- I still think David Marks could/should contribute a strong, rockin' song to the album. I've heard a few of David's solo songs and I think, with the right production, it would fit. Quick responses on the points above (in order)
- Yes, Unleash, not Lookin Back. Sorry! Those Love titles... I agree that avoiding more recent releases would be best wherever possible, but frankly I didn't know much else from Mike that could go into the mix. I would be OK with some of them, too, though. As you said, when it's not a major label release and wasn't popular, I don't know how much it would matter, a la "Daybreak Over the Ocean" being old. (Though at least I don't think that was officially released, was it?)
- Ditto Blondie. I didn't include anything specific because I don't know anything specific. I'd prefer unreleased, as with everyone, but if they dug out a Flame or BC solo song, I'd be cool with that too.
- "Heaven," I actually think it's far from perfect. It's very nice, but to add real, lush Beach Boys harmonies? That would be a great improvement. I would avoid using his (or Dennis's) voice, I think, though. Up for consideration, though.
- Marks, ditto. Same comment as above with Blondie more or less. I'm sure (or at least I hope) he's got a good song to share, I just don't know his work well enough to name names.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 20, 2021 18:20:07 GMT
I would stay away from previously released solo songs, but I'd have no problem if they could come up with a solid unreleased track from Carl and/or Dennis. Let's be honest here, this would be a unique album, and taking chances might be warranted. I'm sure not everybody would approve of including Carl and Dennis, but I think I would. I would avoid using his (or Dennis's) voice, I think, though. Up for consideration, though. I realize Bambu/Bamboo was technically released in some form (I don't want to be contradictory), but I wouldn't be adverse to one of those tracks being included with Beach Boys' backing vocals added. "Tug Of Love" is another one. It missed the cut on Pacific Ocean Blue, but with Beach Boys' harmonies added? Maybe?
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 18:39:08 GMT
Re previously released solo songs, I'd avoid it in a perfect world for sure. But my logic is that they're just not likely to have a stockpile of songs that are high quality and ready to be recorded and released. I could be (and hope I am!) wrong, but that's my guess.
So if the choices were to be: 1) Use previously released, but preferably not widely released (e.g. nothing from Brian's major releases), songs 2) Use previously unreleased, but inferior songs 3) Use covers
I'd opt for #1. It's the best of an imperfect situation, I think.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 20, 2021 18:53:23 GMT
Re previously released solo songs, I'd avoid it in a perfect world for sure. But my logic is that they're just not likely to have a stockpile of songs that are high quality and ready to be recorded and released. I could be (and hope I am!) wrong, but that's my guess.
So if the choices were to be: 1) Use previously released, but preferably not widely released (e.g. nothing from Brian's major releases), songs 2) Use previously unreleased, but inferior songs 3) Use covers
I'd opt for #1. It's the best of an imperfect situation, I think.
The only way I would consider it is if the songs were changed significantly. I guess we're basically talking about Mike's and Al's solo stuff. Their solo albums are fairly recent, relatively speaking. Their lead vocals on songs like "Too Cruel" and "Drivin'" (just to pick two) are going to sound almost exactly the same. Of course adding BB harmonies would improve them, but how much, and you also have to look at the songs themselves. Are Mike's and Al's solo songs even worth revisiting in the first place? I don't think so. I mean, look at the songs we're talking about. I know, I know, the unreleased stuff could be worse.
I'm only asking for one unreleased Mike song and one unreleased Al song. I wouldn't even care if they contribute a NEW song. The trick is which Brian songs are you going to mine. Those are the songs that are gonna make or break the album.
And, is everyone writing off Brian and Mike coming up with a couple of new, good songs? I think the only way Mike is going to agree to a new album is if he can write new songs with Brian. What if they went to Hawaii for a week, or Al's farm/barn, or Mike's home studio - with some additional musicians of course. Don't you think Brian has a few tricks up his sleeve, or a few things in his back pocket that he could finally pull out after hiding them for years?
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 19:24:06 GMT
As for unreleased, (mostly) unheard songs, I definitely am on board for that over released ones. No question. (Assuming they are good, that is.) And I wholly agree that especially most of Mike's that I mentioned--the released ones--just aren't especially good. They rise to the level of OK, which would be a shame to include. But for political reasons, it might be necessary.
It definitely will depend largely on Brian because we all know a new album is going to have to have something like half its songs from him. That seems to be a given, just based on the way these things work. Capitol (or whoever) isn't going to risk another Summer in Paradise. And in my opinion, it seems almost certain that his stockpile of songs would be better than the others', and especially Mike's. But I think it's safe to say that, also for political reasons, he's not going to be allowed to fully fill it. I was surprised TWGMTR was as much a Brian album as it was, actually.
New songs co-written by Brian and Mike? I have no faith because there's no real reason to have faith. Mike can talk all he wants about it, but it doesn't ever seem to happen. Anything is possible, but it seems very unlikely--Brian apparently barely writes himself or with people he gets along with the past 20 years, so it seems hard to imagine he'll go back to this troubled relationship for intimate, productive writing sessions.
Plus, if we're looking for a last hurrah of an album, summer '22 seems like the time. That means it would need to be done spring '22 at the latest, meaning it has to be recorded winter '21-'22, which means they need songs before that... Most all of my speculation has been under the assumption there isn't a lot of time, here.
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 19:24:34 GMT
Don't you think Brian has a few tricks up his sleeve, or a few things in his back pocket that he could finally pull out after hiding them for years? No.
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Post by kds on May 20, 2021 19:57:40 GMT
As much as I enjoy Heaven, and a few of those Dennis songs, I'd prefer to keep any possible new BB album to living members without ghosting in vocals.
That being said, I should withdraw my suggestion of Don't Fight the Sea.
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 20:00:16 GMT
As much as I enjoy Heaven, and a few of those Dennis songs, I'd prefer to keep any possible new BB album to living members without ghosting in vocals. To be clear, my intent was that they would be done by the Beach Boys without old vocals. (Though realistically if we got a good, new album that also included a song apiece with Carl and Dennis vocals, I'd take it without complaining...)
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Post by kds on May 20, 2021 20:10:54 GMT
As much as I enjoy Heaven, and a few of those Dennis songs, I'd prefer to keep any possible new BB album to living members without ghosting in vocals. To be clear, my intent was that they would be done by the Beach Boys without old vocals. (Though realistically if we got a good, new album that also included a song apiece with Carl and Dennis vocals, I'd take it without complaining...) Ah, I misunderstood. If they ghosted in a Dennis or Carl vocal or too, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it wouldn't be my ideal scenario for a farewell album, which would essentially be a follow up to their other farewell album.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on May 20, 2021 20:52:43 GMT
I second Don't Fight the Sea, and believe it should have been used for TWGMTR, perhaps even as a lead single. As for most of the rest of the list, I wouldn't mind seeing some of that stuff on a new album, but would anyone really care? I feel like the press would say if you don't mind no BB vocals, you can already listen to the originals in (generally) better vocal quality. That said, I wouldn't be against including a few truly obscure tracks like Run James Run (with Al's vocal) or something long forgotten by most people like Heaven.
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2021 20:59:41 GMT
I second Don't Fight the Sea, and believe it should have been used for TWGMTR, perhaps even as a lead single. As for most of the rest of the list, I wouldn't mind seeing some of that stuff on a new album, but would anyone really care? I feel like the press would say if you don't mind no BB vocals, you can already listen to the originals in (generally) better vocal quality. That said, I wouldn't be against including a few truly obscure tracks like Run James Run (with Al's vocal) or something long forgotten by most people like Heaven. I don't quite agree, although I think it depends on the songs you choose. (The remakes of Carl/Dennis songs would be where that is most true, where the vocals would be probably worse.) For example, the Wilson/Paley stuff, you can't hear elsewhere with better vocal quality. In fact, I'm not sure much of any of those I mentioned would be in better vocal quality in solo versions.
The Mike stuff, it's all so (relatively) new, it would be similar.
The Al stuff, I don't think there's any reason to imagine he'd be worse.
The Brian stuff, it mostly hasn't been really released: the versions you can find sound generally like shit (including vocals to some degree), and the live songs sound unfinished and haven't been released in studio format.
To be clear, though, I definitely would prefer better songs than these--especially than Mike's noted songs. If those are either previously unreleased and we just don't know them, or if they're new, is irrelevant to me. I'm good either way. This was really just me taking stock of what might work.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 20, 2021 22:21:26 GMT
Don't you think Brian has a few tricks up his sleeve, or a few things in his back pocket that he could finally pull out after hiding them for years? No. I think left to Brian's own devices, we'd get nothing. I think left to just Brian and Mike, we'd get disappointing results. I think, with Brian and Mike and a handful of sensitive, great musicians (a la Darian Sahanaja, Paul Von Mertens, Jeff Foskett, Scott Totten, and Billy Hinsche), we'd have a chance.
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