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Post by Kapitan on Apr 19, 2021 11:53:41 GMT
In late November 1965, the Beach Boys released their first single from their new album, Party. That song, however, was the B-side of the band's latest single: "There's No Other (Like My Baby)" backed the adventurous, non-album A-side, "The Little Girl I Once Knew."
Using stops and starts resulting in seconds of silence made an unusual single, but the song also featured a two-part harmony through much of the verses and massive walls of multiple vocal parts through the refrain. Recorded during sessions for Pet Sounds, it certainly fits that album's general sound more than it does anything else in the group's catalog.
The B-side, "There's No Other (Like My Baby)" was a 1961 Phil Spector song originally done by the Crystals. It was taken from the Beach Boys' current release, Party.
The single's A-side peaked at #20 in the US (the B-side did not chart), making it the Beach Boys' lowest-charting non-Christmas single since 1962's "Ten Little Indians," which peaked at #49.
Please rate and discuss "The Little Girl I Once Knew" backed with "There's No Other (Like My Baby)."
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Post by kds on Apr 19, 2021 13:21:38 GMT
This is another case where I'll award a ten on the strength of the A Side, where the B side seems to be a bit of an afterthought.
But, I think TLGIOK is an amazing song. I think I read in Andrew Doe's book that DJs were hesitant to play the song because of the "dead air" before the chorus. If not for that, it probably would've been a Top 10 hit at least.
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Post by jk on Apr 19, 2021 13:30:37 GMT
Once again, I heard "TLGIOK" at the time and thought it was super, dead air and all. And on this occasion, the B-side culled from an album suits me fine! You see, I've never warmed to Party! (the sensibly shortened "Barbara Ann" is one of my all-time favourite singles), except... except for the magnificent "There's No Other", which I had to wait 40 years to hear. Ten.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 19, 2021 23:17:05 GMT
I like "The Little Girl I Once Knew". Most of it is very, very good; parts of it are great. I do think it has become slightly overrated. I definitely think it sounds more at home on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) than Pet Sounds, though honestly, if it would've landed on Pet Sounds from the beginning I might think differently. It almost sounds like Brian was hanging on to the old style in some ways. It's not as...advanced...as some of the other tracks on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!). Did the band perform the song live back in 1965-66?
I suppose "There's No Other (Like My Baby)" is one of the better songs on Party, but that's not saying much, not to me anyway (I'm not a fan of the album). I'm also not particularly a huge fan of "There's No Other (Like My Baby)" either. Brian is the highlight, but I get a shouty vibe from the overall performance. It grates on me slightly. I wonder what Brian would've done with the song on Today! or Summer days (And Summer Nights!!)?
I can't blame the group for sticking with the A-side (fast song)/B-side (ballad) formula. I would've done the same thing. But, for this single, I think there might've been a better alternative for the B-side. Mike wasn't that prevalent on "The Little Girl I Once Knew". How about "Mountain Of Love" or, yes, "Papa-Oom-Mow Mow" as an alternative, fun B-side? If sticking with the ballad on the B-side, I actually would've preferred "Devoted To You". I guess Capitol was already eyeing up "Barbara Ann".
I'm gonna be tough on this one. Again, "The Little Girl I Once Knew" is very strong, but "There's No Other (Like My Baby)" pulls it down...to an 8.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 20, 2021 13:18:04 GMT
8, I think.
"The Little Girl I Once Knew" strikes me as an odd A-side, and yes, it's because of the silences. I think people were right to question it then, and they'd be right to question it now. It's not to say that it's a tragedy that leaves the song useless, not by a long shot. But it does interrupt the flow of what is in spots a really driving, rhythmic song.
On that latter note, there's something about the rhythm itself that doesn't always work for me, too. It just doesn't always feel tight, together. Maybe it's partly the reverb drenching it all, which softens sonic edges, after all. Or maybe it's the relative lack of drums, whereas live versions include pick-ups, etc. But I used to prefer the Live at the Roxy version to the original for that reason. It just felt punchier, which the song deserves.
I really do love the song otherwise. The verses, with the harmonized call and unison response; the refrain, with its own call and response vocal lines. The epic organ arpeggios. The doo-wop "bow bow bow" from Mike. Very good.
"There's No Other (Like My Baby)," I could take or leave. Like much of the album from which it's taken, I don't ever listen to it. While it isn't awful, it isn't especially worthwhile for me. A casual take on a cool song is one thing; a fake casual take in a fake party environment is quite another.
I'm keeping the rating an 8 because I'm generally ignoring the B-side, basically. It is neutral. Had I been involved, I'd have voted against it, though.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 20, 2021 13:20:15 GMT
I like "The Little Girl I Once Knew". ... I definitely think it sounds more at home on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) than Pet Sounds, though honestly, if it would've landed on Pet Sounds from the beginning I might think differently. It almost sounds like Brian was hanging on to the old style in some ways. It's not as...advanced...as some of the other tracks on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!). Did the band perform the song live back in 1965-66? I'd like to hear more about your thoughts as outlined here, Sheriff John Stone. What about it do you think sounds backward facing instead of forward looking? What doesn't sound advanced, what sounds old style to you?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 20, 2021 13:41:02 GMT
I like "The Little Girl I Once Knew". ... I definitely think it sounds more at home on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) than Pet Sounds, though honestly, if it would've landed on Pet Sounds from the beginning I might think differently. It almost sounds like Brian was hanging on to the old style in some ways. It's not as...advanced...as some of the other tracks on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!). Did the band perform the song live back in 1965-66? I'd like to hear more about your thoughts as outlined here, Sheriff John Stone . What about it do you think sounds backward facing instead of forward looking? What doesn't sound advanced, what sounds old style to you? On some Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) tracks, specifically "Let Him Run Wild" and "California Girls", Brian was employing the full Wrecking Crew, including strings, brass, and woodwinds. Even "The Girl From New York City" and "Salt Lake City" have traces of the Crew. Actually, some sessions from Today have some Wrecking Crew flourishes like the alternate "I'm So Young" and "Guess I'm Dumb". And, of course, Pet Sounds is a full-out Spectorian, Wrecking Crew-led production.
However, "The Little Girl I Once Knew", recorded during the early Pet Sounds sessions, features just the basic guitar, bass, keyboards, and drums. I mean, the track is great, it's an outstanding BW production, but it just sounds a little more retro than Pet Sounds-ish. Even the "split man" resembles more of the earlier Mike than the "Here Today" Mike. I mean no criticism of the song; I like it a lot. Even the silences don't bother me much.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 20, 2021 16:01:53 GMT
TLGIOK does have a more full arrangement, actually. That's one thing I am frustrated with about it: the mix doesn't really do it for me. But while it includes basic rock instrumentation, there are also piano, organ, saxophones, trumpets, and some pitched percussion (I think vibes). But with all the echo and the prominent vocals, a lot is buried. You can hear some of that pretty clearly here (especially in headphones):
I think the track sounds very much akin to what else Brian was doing at the time (which was Pet Sounds).
Unfortunately neither wiki nor C Slowinski's page has a full sessionography.
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Post by jk on Apr 20, 2021 17:49:00 GMT
TLGIOK does have a more full arrangement, actually. That's one thing I am frustrated with about it: the mix doesn't really do it for me. But while it includes basic rock instrumentation, there are also piano, organ, saxophones, trumpets, and some pitched percussion (I think vibes). But with all the echo and the prominent vocals, a lot is buried. You can hear some of that pretty clearly here (especially in headphones):
I think the track sounds very much akin to what else Brian was doing at the time (which was Pet Sounds).
Unfortunately neither wiki nor C Slowinski's page has a full sessionography.
I don't know how patient a man you are, Cap'n, but it's possible ( please don't quote me on this!!) that Joshilyn will turn her spotlight on it once she's done with SD(ASN!!)...
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 20, 2021 17:51:42 GMT
I don't know how patient a man you are, Cap'n, but it's possible ( please don't quote me on this!!) that Joshilyn will turn her spotlight on it once she's done with SD(ASN!!)... I quoted you.
Sorry, I had to do it.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 20, 2021 19:46:24 GMT
TLGIOK does have a more full arrangement, actually. That's one thing I am frustrated with about it: the mix doesn't really do it for me. But while it includes basic rock instrumentation, there are also piano, organ, saxophones, trumpets, and some pitched percussion (I think vibes). But with all the echo and the prominent vocals, a lot is buried. You can hear some of that pretty clearly here (especially in headphones):
I think the track sounds very much akin to what else Brian was doing at the time (which was Pet Sounds).
Unfortunately neither wiki nor C Slowinski's page has a full sessionography.
Thank you for pointing that out. I guess I missed that arrangement over the years. It isn't especially prominent; the vocals are dominant.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 20, 2021 19:51:50 GMT
No, I agree entirely and don't blame you. The organ and electric guitars and electric bass really stand out (as well as the obviously prominent vocals), so it really does seem like a smaller production. Then when you really listen closely for it, or especially that instrumental track, you can hear what else is in there.
That's why to me it isn't a really good mix: why arrange something for all those instruments (and pay those musicians) and then have them inaudible? It's like the worst of Spector's tendencies.
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Post by B.E. on Apr 21, 2021 0:57:34 GMT
I like "The Little Girl I Once Knew". Most of it is very, very good; parts of it are great. I do think it has become slightly overrated. I definitely think it sounds more at home on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) than Pet Sounds, though honestly, if it would've landed on Pet Sounds from the beginning I might think differently. It almost sounds like Brian was hanging on to the old style in some ways. You beat me to the punch! I definitely associate it with SDSN and, in particular, the two songs you later mentioned, "California Girls" and "Let Him Run Wild". Unfortunately, it suffers by comparison. As a result I get a similar feeling Kapitan does: it's an odd A-side. What really torpedoes this single, though, is the pairing of it with a Party! track. These songs in NO WAY sound like they belong together. And, while we are at it, neither do "Barbara Ann" and "Girl Don't Tell Me". Swapping B-sides of those singles would have greatly enhanced both, IMO. Why would I ever sit down and listen to these pairings? I sometimes wonder if I'm not higher on TLGIOK because I simply haven't listened to it enough. Not being on a studio album, nor the major GH comps, that could be so. But, it kind of seems to me that it's one of those good/great sounding records that just doesn't connect on a deeper level. IIRC "Hey Bulldog" was recently cited as such (and by the composer, no less), but that one at least has some interesting lyrics to it. And, as much as I love the vocal arrangement on TLGIOK, I think I'll take the searing " you can talk to me" section of "Hey Bulldog". Now, here's where I lose everyone: the highlight of this single is, far and away, "There's No Other (Like My Baby)". That's a 10er for me. (TLGIOK ekes out an 8.) I just really love that style of music and I enjoy the atmosphere. Brian sounds fantastic on it and everyone sounds like they are having a blast. I'd agree that TLGIOK might be suffering from an inadequate mix. The difference in clarity/immediacy between the two sides really is striking. The single's A-side peaked at #20 in the US (the B-side did not chart), making it the Beach Boys' lowest-charting non-Christmas single since 1962's "Ten Little Indians," which peaked at #49. Wow, when you put it like that...and I can't really say I disagree: I Get Around/Don't Worry Baby - 10 Surfer Girl/Little Deuce Coupe - 10 California Girls/Let Him Run Wild - 10 Help Me Rhonda/Kiss Me Baby - 10 Little Saint Nick/The Lord's Prayer - 10 Surfin' USA/Shut Down - 9 Fun Fun Fun/Why Do Fools Fall In Love - 9 Be True To Your School/In My Room - 9 Do You Wanna Dance/Please Let Me Wonder - 9 When I Grow Up/She Knows Me Too Well - 9 Dance Dance Dance/Warmth Of The Sun - 9 Surfin' Safari/409 - 8 Man With All The Toys/Blue Christmas - 8 The Little Girl I Once Knew/There's No Other (Like My Baby) - 8 Surfin'/Luau - 7 Ten Little Indians/County Fair - 7
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 21, 2021 11:58:58 GMT
I definitely associate [The Little Girl I Once Knew] with SDSN and, in particular, the two songs you later mentioned, "California Girls" and "Let Him Run Wild". ... What really torpedoes this single, though, is the pairing of it with a Party! track. These songs in NO WAY sound like they belong together. I don't disagree with this, by the way. When I say it sounds like Pet Sounds tracks, I mean it ... but I also don't think Pet Sounds is necessarily as sharp a departure from what came before it as is sometimes said. The two songs you mentioned above as comparisons, I agree.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 21, 2021 13:26:18 GMT
This morning I put together a playlist of music of that era, late '65 through Pet Sounds, just to see how some of these fit together. And honestly, several songs that I don't think people would associate together "era"-wise, truly sound of a piece. The songs I lumped together were (in no particular order, as I rearranged them a few times):
Wouldn't It Be Nice Help Me, Rhonda The Little Girl I Once Knew Guess I'm Dumb Sloop John B California Girls The Girl From New York City Let Him Run Wild Then I Kissed Her
All of them were recorded in similar style (some semblance of a real band playing together--whether Beach Boys, Wrecking Crew, or both--with overdubs as necessary), generally incorporating rock band augmented with some outside instrumentation, and generally using bigger vocal arrangements than just harmonies to a melody or basic doo-wop sorts of motifs (e.g. multiple countermelodies, counterpoint, call-and-responses). They've generally all got a big echo to them, that "live room" sound. And most of them are relatively simple songs that are made more complex by either certain specifics of arrangements or just one or two odd parts.
That said, while they sound similar, they're not equally successful. That's where I'd reassert my comments on our single of the week, for example. (I do think it's not as tight sounding as it could be, and I think the silences detract from the song.)
But my point is we're all right, in a way: TLGIOK does sound like Pet Sounds ... and SDSN, because those two albums often sound more alike than they're given credit for.
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