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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2021 12:21:46 GMT
In October 1964, the Beach Boys released another single drawing partly off their still-months-away album Today!, again backing it with an older song. This time it was "Dance Dance Dance" backed with "The Warmth of the Sun."
"Dance Dance Dance" had music by Brian and Carl Wilson and lyrics by Mike Love and Brian. The guitar riff was Carl's primary contribution. The song featured all of the Beach Boys instrumentally and vocally as well as half a dozen Wrecking Crew musicians supplementing them. It reached #8 in the US, #7 in Canada, and #24 in the UK.
The B-side, "The Warmth of the Sun" had been released the previous March on Shut Down, Vol. 2, and so was already seven months old by its release as a B-side. The ballad has become one of the group's move beloved songs, and its composition has even spawned semi-mythical origin stories from the writers, Wilson and Love, related to it being done just before or just after the assassination of President Kennedy. It did not chart.
Please rate and discuss "Dance Dance Dance" and "The Warmth of the Sun."
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Post by kds on Mar 15, 2021 12:46:22 GMT
In the early days of my BB fandom, Dance Dance Dance was a song I used to write off as fluff. As the years went by, I grew to appreciate it more thanks to the great backing track, and Brian's great vocals on the chorus. Even though I can't say I've ever been fond of dancing (although, I'm not a motorhead or a surfer either, but anyway).
The B Side is my favorite Mike and Brian composition of all time, and my Favorite BB song from the early years, and tied with Surf's Up for my favorite BB song of all time. A great Brian vocal, and a backing track that I feel is brilliant in its simplicity.
Ten
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2021 13:34:10 GMT
I also gave this a 10.
There is plenty to say about these songs. I'll start by noting the interesting chord change--made famous in one of the documentaries--in "The Warmth of the Sun." On a casual listen, it simply sounds like a lovely ballad that fits nicely into the aesthetic of its day. A person might just lump it in with the I-vi-ii-V7 it almost resembles.
But it's fooling you.
The progression begins typically, with I (C major) and vi (A minor). But instead of going to a D minor (ii) or an F major (IV, a common substitute for the ii), it goes to an Eb major, which is a #ii or bIII. The chord's root is outside of the key, and is in fact a tritone away from the tonic, "the devil's interval." It is arguably the most tense interval, the one demanding resolution the most.
It treats that Eb major as a new tonic and goes to its vi, which is C minor. Then it returns to the original progression to conclude with a D minor (ii) and G, making the tritone-away "I-vi" a brief interruption to the standard progression.
Very simply, potentially jarring, but so smoothly arranged and performed as to sound not jarring, but interesting. It's one of those moments that piques your interest even if you don't know why or how. It keeps it from being a run-of-the-mill, formulaic ballad. It is exactly the way to innovate in popular music, in my opinion: work mostly within established norms, deviating just enough. Too little and you'll be at best pleasing; too much and you'll be annoying or confusing.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2021 16:33:06 GMT
I'll give this one a 9 mostly because of "Dance Dance Dance", I love everything about this song. I think TWotS is OK and the reason this single won't get a 10 from me. Maybe I feel this way because the boys had already released songs in a very similar style but stronger. I find this very surprising! I was assuming people giving lower scores (not that 9 is low, but it's lower [than 10]) would remove points for "Dance Dance Dance," not "Warmth of the Sun." "OK," and other songs "in a very similar style but stronger"? I don't know about that.
Don't get me wrong, @robesimo, I'm not knocking you. And I enjoy the different perspectives we get here. This one just surprised me.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2021 17:37:36 GMT
Is this my hottest take on this board so far? It might be. Way to stir things up!
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Post by kds on Mar 15, 2021 18:01:58 GMT
I find this very surprising! I was assuming people giving lower scores (not that 9 is low, but it's lower [than 10]) would remove points for "Dance Dance Dance," not "Warmth of the Sun." "OK," and other songs "in a very similar style but stronger"? I don't know about that.
Don't get me wrong, @robesimo , I'm not knocking you. And I enjoy the different perspectives we get here. This one just surprised me.
No problems, Kap! I just think "Warmth of the Sun" isn't a great or even very good song, I actually find it kind of lackluster. And I genuinely think that at this track Brian was just repeating a formula. Not in the chord progression or something (I don't really understand much about this), but in the way it sounds. WotS feels like an attempt to come up with a song like "Surfer Girl" and "In My Room", but it just doesn't do it for me. Is this my hottest take on this board so far? That's pretty much how I feel about Keep an Eye on Summer and Girls on the Beach (even though I really do like both songs), but I've always thought that Warmth of the Sun was pretty unique when compared to the other early ballads.
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Post by jk on Mar 15, 2021 20:48:22 GMT
Still prevaricating between a nine and a ten. "Dance Dance Dance" is one of my top five favourite BB songs, a wonderfully joyous outing.
Like RS, I don't rate "TWOTS" quite as highly as most folks do. The same goes for "In My Room". I rate "Surfer Girl" and the extraordinary "Girls On The Beach" far higher than either.
It's all so darn subjective. I'll go for nine. (I can always change it.)
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Post by lonelysummer on Mar 16, 2021 4:17:06 GMT
Another 10. Dance, Dance, Dance has that great guitar lick, a great, energetic backing track, it's just groovy! Makes me wanna get up and ....do the hustle! The Warmth of the Sun - Beach Boys ballads are so special. This is one I am always trying to play. It's hard to sing - no matter what key it's in. Mike's lyrics are perfect; no cliches here, no self conscious self referencing, just the right words to go with Brian's music. As noted above, very unusual chord changes.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 16, 2021 12:45:23 GMT
This is a tough one and I'll probably come off looking...not good.
I love "Dance, Dance, Dance". Love it! It's an all-timer. Appears on all my Best Of comps. More of the timeless, early, hit-making formula, and what a formula. It rocks. But...it doesn't rock enough. Let me 'splain. It's songs like "Dance, Dance, Dance" that, maybe subconsciously, draw the line (and it's a fine line) between The Beach Boys and The Beatles. The guitars in "Dance, Dance, Dance" are awesome, at least the notes and the performance are. But, does anybody wish the VOLUME or mix would've been turned up? ROCK out! It almost does. I mean, it does. But I mean really cut loose. Listen to some of those Beatles' 1964 records. There is a difference. Some of the Beach Boys' 1964 records (and a few of the earlier surf covers) are slightly subdued. Now, that later, alternate version of "Dance, Dance, Dance" rocks. It's a different mix; it's rawer, and raw is good.
Now I'm really gonna get in trouble. I love "The Warmth Of The Sun", too. It also appears on every Best Of comp. Everything about it is great - melody, arrangement, lyrics, and vocals. It's also an all-timer. No question about it. But there's something about Brian's high vocal, not when he sings the words but the wordless part, that slightly grates on me. No, grating isn't exactly accurate, maybe "not quite right". Not so much the intro, but the repeating ending/fade. And it might just be the mix/volume. To me, the song is wistful, with visions of dawn and dusk. Looking out over the ocean. Laying in bed. It's reminiscing, dreaming, longing. I just think that a more restrained, maybe softer Brian vocal at the end would've been more effective. I know, by now you're thinking I'm nuts, criticizing one of the all-time great BW vocals, a 1964 vocal in his prime. It's just an opinion.
Like I said, both songs are great, both minimum 9's. Essential BB listening. Another classic fast/slow single. I don't know how fans felt about the group/Capitol going back two albums to include "The Warmth Of The Sun". I do remember the vinyl years, and in a way it was a bonus to get a "fresh", new copy of a record that had degraded (snap, crackle & pop) with an album that was played and played. I'm going with a 9 here, and that's not too shabby.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 16, 2021 12:57:59 GMT
I think Dance Dance Dance rocks quite well! But I have to admit, I thought for sure you were going to complain how short it is!
Those two things strike me in tandem because I was thinking while listening to it yesterday, it's almost like a (sophisticated) Ramones song.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 16, 2021 13:10:08 GMT
I think Dance Dance Dance rocks quite well! But I have to admit, I thought for sure you were going to complain how short it is!
Those two things strike me in tandem because I was thinking while listening to it yesterday, it's almost like a (sophisticated) Ramones song.
Oh, no. I'm a big fan of Brian's two-minute classics. He perfected that formula. Genius pop music.
And, I WISH the Beach Boys' songs resembled the Ramones. Occasionally, there'll be an article or opinion comparing some Beach Boys' songs to punk rock. I don't really hear it. The lyrics, yes, Mike had an attitude. But the music didn't really. Not to my ears anyway.
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Post by kds on Mar 16, 2021 13:23:36 GMT
I think Dance Dance Dance rocks quite well! But I have to admit, I thought for sure you were going to complain how short it is!
Those two things strike me in tandem because I was thinking while listening to it yesterday, it's almost like a (sophisticated) Ramones song.
Oh, no. I'm a big fan of Brian's two-minute classics. He perfected that formula. Genius pop music.
And, I WISH the Beach Boys' songs resembled the Ramones. Occasionally, there'll be an article or opinion comparing some Beach Boys' songs to punk rock. I don't really hear it. The lyrics, yes, Mike had an attitude. But the music didn't really. Not to my ears anyway. I could see the punk comparison mostly on the Beach Boys debut album, because like punk, it's very DIY. But, The Beach Boys evolved far beyond the limitations of what would become punk pretty quickly.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 17, 2021 23:03:25 GMT
There's something specific about "Dance Dance Dance" I want to mention, as it is something that I love about several Beach Boys songs. Around 1:33, Brian switches from singing the lead to wailing "ah" with the melody of the lead (but wordlessly) while the group continues to sing the background vocals.
Other examples deviate slightly, such as the tag of "Fun Fun Fun" where Brian wails on a new falsetto melody as the band does its part. In "Hawaii" there's another example of the melody with "ooohs."
But regardless, I love--LOVE--this. Whether it recapitulates the melody or covers new ground, this is one of those things you actually might call "the formula" ... and you'd be a damn fool to fuck with it, so paraphrase a mythical quote.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 18, 2021 1:01:55 GMT
I don't know how fans felt about the group/Capitol going back two albums to include "The Warmth Of The Sun".
That has to be the main reason it didn't chart. Otherwise, I'm at a loss. "409", "Shut Down", "Little Deuce Coupe", "In My Room", "Don't Worry Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", and "God Only Knows" all charted as b-sides. Most of them went top 40 (if not top 25).
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Post by B.E. on Mar 18, 2021 1:18:50 GMT
I love "The Warmth Of The Sun" ... But there's something about Brian's high vocal, not when he sings the words but the wordless part, that slightly grates on me. No, grating isn't exactly accurate, maybe "not quite right". Not so much the intro, but the repeating ending/fade. And it might just be the mix/volume. To me, the song is wistful, with visions of dawn and dusk. Looking out over the ocean. Laying in bed. It's reminiscing, dreaming, longing. I just think that a more restrained, maybe softer Brian vocal at the end would've been more effective. I know, by now you're thinking I'm nuts, criticizing one of the all-time great BW vocals, a 1964 vocal in his prime. It's just an opinion. I'm not sure we're coming from quite the same place, or to the same degree, but there is something about "The Warmth Of The Sun" that keeps me from loving it like I do the other classics. To keep things in perspective, though, I'd rate it a 9.5 instead of a 10. And, I really struggle to identify exactly what it is that makes me feel that way. Best I can suspect, it has to do with Brian's vocal (even though it sounds GREAT in many spots and blends so well with the otherworldly backing vocals). I can kinda see where Robe Simo is coming from, too. I mean, Brian wrote a lot of ballads in a short time, so there's bound to be a certain amount of sameness (and we're all bound to prefer some over others for reasons known and unknown). Anyway, it might be some combination of the (too slow?) tempo of the song, the sustaining of the notes of the melody throughout the song, and Brian's delivery (or the mix of his vocals) that I find "not quite right perfect". I don't know.
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