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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2021 15:36:59 GMT
Out of curiosity, I checked the official Brian Wilson Twitter feed to see whether a response to Spector's death had been posted.
Nope.
I'm not sure whether that is or isn't a surprise. On one hand I'd imagine Wilson feels very shaken by it, as his feelings toward the man and his music have always seemed both intense and unsettling. And so combining that with the odds of being pilloried by the social media outrage mobs for saying anything that is deemed inappropriate--meaning if he were to say something simple like "RIP to Phil Spector, the greatest producer of all time," there is zero doubt he'd get 10 to 1 negative responses for not focusing on the murder--it makes some sense that he'd just avoid the topic.
On the other hand, he is so publicly a fan, it is a little odd to see no response at all in this day and age, when musicians (and everyone else) seem to comment on the passing of any- and everyone. Brian has commented on the passings of Alex Trebek, Eddie Van Halen, Bill Withers... but nothing on his favorite producer and arguably biggest influence.
A lot of questions and points. Do you really want to go there? Do you want an honest answer? (ha ha)
Like I posted way above, my immediate thoughts were with Brian. I wonder if he put a lot behind him and closed the proverbial door to Spector - at least to some extent - when Spector was convicted for murder and sent to prison for life. Borrowing a cliche I read in a few places - Spector died a long time ago. I suppose Brian will always be...haunted...by the musical shadow of Phil Spector. Do you ever get the feeling that when Brian sits down at the piano or "thinks" about producing a song, his instincts inevitably take him to Spector. Even now.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 15:39:47 GMT
Interesting, jk (re Al's FB post).
I think that's a very good way to put it, which is a bit of a surprise considering Al's tendency to be less-than-smooth with the press (spilling the beans, being inaccurate, etc.). But he nailed it: credit the music and only the passing comment that "it would be nice to remember him only for his songs and production talents." That WOULD be nice, and yet (as the statement implies), we don't just remember him for those nice things.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 15:41:17 GMT
A lot of questions and points. Do you really want to go there? Do you want an honest answer? (ha ha) I sure do. Always. Something about honesty being the best policy and all that...
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Post by kds on Jan 18, 2021 15:41:59 GMT
I did see a post from Brian's FB page yesterday, but its not there now.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jan 18, 2021 16:09:53 GMT
I did see a post from Brian's FB page yesterday, but its not there now. Yes, there was a post that was deleted shortly after. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jan 18, 2021 16:16:41 GMT
Here it is. Really weird that it was never reposted. I assume it was originally taken down because of what it didn't say about Spector's later years... Attachments:
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 16:23:00 GMT
If it was pulled for that reason, that's very disappointing (for exactly the reasons I wrote above).
What's he supposed to say? "I thought I liked Phil Spector's records, but since he killed a woman, I've learned that they sound terrible and do not merit mention; indeed, everything I thought I knew was a lie."?
If the substance of one's comments were that Spector was the kindest, gentlest, most peaceful man ever to walk the earth, I'd say that person would deserve all the attacks he'd get. But if the comments are focused on the music, I don't see why they can't just exist in that world.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jan 18, 2021 16:30:49 GMT
Honestly, Brian could use a new social media/PR team. They've had a number of missteps over the past few years.
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Post by kds on Jan 18, 2021 19:23:54 GMT
If it was pulled for that reason, that's very disappointing (for exactly the reasons I wrote above).
What's he supposed to say? "I thought I liked Phil Spector's records, but since he killed a woman, I've learned that they sound terrible and do not merit mention; indeed, everything I thought I knew was a lie."?
If the substance of one's comments were that Spector was the kindest, gentlest, most peaceful man ever to walk the earth, I'd say that person would deserve all the attacks he'd get. But if the comments are focused on the music, I don't see why they can't just exist in that world.
I'm with you. I don't see anything wrong with the post.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2021 11:26:09 GMT
Spector talks about Brian Wilson:
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2021 14:10:37 GMT
Leaving aside the purely personal jabs he takes, I think his two musical claims warrant mention.
1) "I always wondered how 'Little Deuce Coupe' took two people to write."
Of all the people to insinuate that it was a discredit to use multiple songwriters, Spector is not the one. This isn't some Prince/Zappa/Rundgren kind of one-man operation. The vast majority of the hits Spector is known for were written by three people! Barry-Greenwich-Spector is probably the most common credit, with King-Goffin-Spector prominent as well.
But even if Spector were a sole songwriter, it doesn't seem like a particularly powerful criticism anyway, especially in the case of a music-and-lyrics split like Wilson-Christian on "Little Deuce Coupe." There is nothing inherent in a composer that would make him a lyricist, or vice versa. There's no reason one ought to be expected to be good at both things.
2) "Good Vibrations isn't a great record, it's an 'edit' record." His point is that having been edited together rather than performed straight through makes it inferior than it would have been otherwise, that it can't be great.
This doesn't make sense, either. It makes PERFECT sense if we're talking about a performance. There is no good argument that a "performance" comprising multiple takes edited together is lesser than a straight-through performance. That's absolutely true.
But we aren't talking about a performance, here. He isn't talking about a performance. He's talking about "a great record," and "a great song." There is no prerequisite for either a record or a song that it has to be a straight-through, live performance. A record is a sound recording that can be anything. A song is a more abstract and malleable thing, of course, that can be arranged, performed, and produced any number of ways.
(And for that matter, Spector used overdubbing ... meaning in a different way, his records were also "edit records." It's just that rather than editing in one direction, they edited in another. Rather than editing discrete durations of time one after the other, they are edited on top of one another.)
History has quite clearly judged "Good Vibrations" to be a great record, a great song. And you can hear plenty of great performances of that song, especially by Brian Wilson's band over the years, but also by various lineups of the Beach Boys and others.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2021 14:57:32 GMT
I find it interesting that Phil Spector would be critical of Brian Wilson in the first place. From Day One, Brian expressed nothing but praise and, dare I say, worship for Spector's work. For decades, in interviews, Brian gave a nod to Spector, many times unprompted. While I appreciate Spector's work, I never heard the greatness in it that Brian did. But, hey, if Brian was blown away (those were usually Brian's words) by Spector's work, then to each his own. Anyway, I wonder why Spector didn't just accept Brian's compliments and return them when he had the opportunity. That's what most artists/musicians do.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2021 15:05:52 GMT
Most artists don't whip out firearms in the studio and threaten the artists they work with, either. I think it's obvious that Phil Spector was crazy.
One would guess (and of course it's just a guess) he felt threatened by this obviously brilliant younger talent, and so rather than actually nurture him, he metaphorically kicked him to hold him down.
It's almost funny that during that little clip he says something about being Wilson's mentor, but of course he was no such thing. A mentor works with, helps, teaches his protege. Spector did none of those things. Wilson taught himself by listening to Spector; Spector was not in the slightest generous in sharing his insights.
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Post by kds on Jan 19, 2021 15:20:50 GMT
One thing I'll say about Spector is that I never really got the hate behind his production of the Let It Be album.
I know Paul wasn't a fan, but John and George each worked with Spector after Let It Be.
But, I read things like "Spector ruined Let It Be," and I think his production is just fine.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2021 15:30:32 GMT
I saw this appearance the night it aired. I was blown away by Brian's physical appearance and the group's performance on "Graduation Day". I programmed this video to start at Brian's comment on Phil Spector (if it doesn't work it's at the 4:54 mark). I always wondered if Brian actually spoke with Spector, if he was full of shit, if he was insane, or all three. But, what if Brian did speak to Spector about working together? It was 1984 and Spector was still active. That's one of those collaborations I can only dream about. Can you imagine Brian Wilson and Phil Spector working together. How much would you pay to be a fly on the wall at those sessions?
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