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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 16:23:05 GMT
One can easily find the news report but at 81 years old phil specter is dead.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 17, 2021 16:42:24 GMT
...and, my immediate thoughts go to how Brian Wilson is feeling right now. Of course, Brian has had his share of major losses including his parents, brothers, and several musician friends. This must be a unique (I can't think of the right word) one for him. You just know Brian never...got over his influence.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 17, 2021 17:16:40 GMT
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 17, 2021 19:43:28 GMT
I'd have liked to have experienced his music in real time, because in hindsight I think it suffers somewhat, both from other producers who I think topped him and of course the surrounding narratives of his erratic and criminal behavior. I've wondered whether the music would have been more consistently impressive at the time. As it is, I really love some of his productions, but nowhere near the majority of them.
Here is Pitchfork's obit on Spector. As a pretty regular visitor to the site, I am shocked that they didn't bring up that he was a murderer until the subhead and the second paragraph: I would have guessed they'd appear in the headline and first paragraph, respectively, based on the site's general tone and perspective.
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Post by jk on Jan 17, 2021 20:54:05 GMT
I'd have liked to have experienced his music in real time, because in hindsight I think it suffers somewhat, both from other producers who I think topped him and of course the surrounding narratives of his erratic and criminal behavior. I've wondered whether the music would have been more consistently impressive at the time. As it is, I really love some of his productions, but nowhere near the majority of them. I did experience his music in real time. I recall hearing The Crystals' "He's A Rebel" when it was at #1 in the US but I don't think the notion of a Phil Spector production dawned on me until around the time of that same group's "Da Doo Ron Ron". My brother bought it and we were both knocked sideways by the curious guitar-led instrumental on the B-side -- "Wow, these ladies can play!" Unlike Brian, I was underwhelmed by The Ronettes' "Be My Baby" and have always regarded "(The Best Part Of) Breakin' Up", "Do I Love You?" and "Walkin' In The Rain" as far superior. I lost interest in Spec (as Liberty label producer Snuff Garrett used to call him) at the appearance of "River Deep", which I've never liked. As for his connection with Leonard Cohen, well... has anyone here heard Death of a Ladies' Man? His sterling work with The Beatles together and solo drew me briefly back into the fold. But it's his pre-"River" stuff that I will always treasure. Good night, Uncle Phil.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 17, 2021 22:24:40 GMT
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Post by jk on Jan 18, 2021 8:45:11 GMT
I see Hoffman is still pondering its next move:
Please refrain from starting new or reopening old Phil Spector threads for now. They’re impossible to moderate, filled with hate and vitriol.
We’ll figure something out.
Thank you for your patience!
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 12:33:10 GMT
Glad to see an absence of hate and vitriol here, or the challenge of an impossible-to-moderate thread. Seems to me entirely possible to discuss his music (and impact on music) on one hand, and keep his (severe!) personal flaws on the other.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2021 14:28:04 GMT
The Beach Boys Play Spector
01 Then I Kissed Her - Summer Days (And Summer Nights)
02 There's No Other (Like My Baby) - Beach Boys' Party
03 I Can Hear Music - 20/20
04 Chapel Of Love - 15 Big Ones
05 Just Once In My Life - 15 Big Ones
06 Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love - Made In California 07 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Made In California 08 Da Doo Ron Ron - Made In California
09 Be My Baby - Looking Back With Love 10 Be My Baby - Live At The Roxy 11 This Could Be The Night - For The Love Of Harry: Everybody Sings Nilsson
Did I miss any?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 14:29:19 GMT
Out of curiosity, does anyone here hold Spector's productions in higher esteem than Wilson's? Obviously the fact that we're on a Beach Boys board is likely to help answer that question, but not necessarily.
What about either man's work is it that puts it above the other's work, in your view?
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Post by jk on Jan 18, 2021 14:32:23 GMT
Glad to see an absence of hate and vitriol here, or the challenge of an impossible-to-moderate thread. Seems to me entirely possible to discuss his music (and impact on music) on one hand, and keep his (severe!) personal flaws on the other. Exactly! And even the memory of those flaws will fade given time -- maybe decades, maybe centuries, whatever it takes. In 1590, the much-loved madrigalist Carlo Gesualdo discovered his wife and her lover in the act and killed them both on the spot. No one begrudges him that these days (it doesn't seem as if they did at the time either). The big difference right now is that Spector's crime affects people living today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Gesualdo
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Post by jk on Jan 18, 2021 14:43:21 GMT
Out of curiosity, does anyone here hold Spector's productions in higher esteem than Wilson's? Obviously the fact that we're on a Beach Boys board is likely to help answer that question, but not necessarily.
What about either man's work is it that puts it above the other's work, in your view?
I always think of what Uncle Phil does with percussion as opposed to what Brian does with it. Spector throws in everything pretty well immediately whereas Brian in, say, "Dance, Dance, Dance" employs tambourine, castanets and indeed the kit more sparingly and judiciously. But no, not in higher esteem in either case. Chalk and cheese, really. And at their peak, both are absolute masters in what they do.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2021 14:45:08 GMT
Out of curiosity, does anyone here hold Spector's productions in higher esteem than Wilson's? Obviously the fact that we're on a Beach Boys board is likely to help answer that question, but not necessarily.
What about either man's work is it that puts it above the other's work, in your view?
Maybe in 1962-63, Phil Spector's productions were "above" Brian's, but it's a matter of opinion of course. In 1962-63 Phil was churning out those Ronettes, Crystals, Darlene Love, and Bob B. Soxx records which were directly influencing Brian and other artists. Then there's the Spector Christmas Album. That was groundbreaking stuff for rock & roll, the different instruments he was incorporating. By 1964, Brian was advancing and coming into his own, and on his way to eclipsing Spector.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2021 15:20:14 GMT
Out of curiosity, I checked the official Brian Wilson Twitter feed to see whether a response to Spector's death had been posted.
Nope.
I'm not sure whether that is or isn't a surprise. On one hand I'd imagine Wilson feels very shaken by it, as his feelings toward the man and his music have always seemed both intense and unsettling. And so combining that with the odds of being pilloried by the social media outrage mobs for saying anything that is deemed inappropriate--meaning if he were to say something simple like "RIP to Phil Spector, the greatest producer of all time," there is zero doubt he'd get 10 to 1 negative responses for not focusing on the murder--it makes some sense that he'd just avoid the topic.
On the other hand, he is so publicly a fan, it is a little odd to see no response at all in this day and age, when musicians (and everyone else) seem to comment on the passing of any- and everyone. Brian has commented on the passings of Alex Trebek, Eddie Van Halen, Bill Withers... but nothing on his favorite producer and arguably biggest influence.
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Post by jk on Jan 18, 2021 15:26:23 GMT
Out of curiosity, I checked the official Brian Wilson Twitter feed to see whether a response to Spector's death had been posted.
Nope.
Emdeeh posted an FB message from Al at Smiley and EH (with apologies to her for reposting it here): RIP Phil Spector, creator of the "Wall of Sound" and producer/writer (most often with Ellie Greenwich & Jeff Barry) of such classics as "Be My Baby," "To Know Him, Is To Love Him," "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling," "Da Doo Ron Ron," "Chapel Of Love," "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)," "River Deep - Mountain High," "I Can Hear Music" (covered by The Beach Boys on the 20/20 album) and so many more. It would be nice to remember him only for his songs and production talents--John Lennon called him “the greatest record producer ever” and The Ronettes' "Be My Baby" was the song that inspired Brian to produce The Beach Boys (and other artists) and will always be the greatest record Brian ever heard.
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