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Post by Kapitan on Jan 7, 2021 18:35:01 GMT
I'm not certain who made the choice to take the reigns from Brian, but I imagine the thought process was that Brian was unfit to produce the follow-up to Love You, which was basically a failure. 15 Big Ones was a top 10 album. Love You didn't make it into the Top 50. It also produced no charting singles, and the reception by fans and critics was pretty mixed. Not only that, but he had produced the unreleasable (in the minds of the label and some of the band) Adult Child in the interim. It just wasn't a recent track record that would inspire confidence from a band of guys who each thought they could do better--and let's remember, who had been making records largely without Brian Wilson only five years earlier.
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Post by kds on Jan 7, 2021 18:39:13 GMT
I'm not certain who made the choice to take the reigns from Brian, but I imagine the thought process was that Brian was unfit to produce the follow-up to Love You, which was basically a failure. 15 Big Ones was a top 10 album. Love You didn't make it into the Top 50. It also produced no charting singles, and the reception by fans and critics was pretty mixed. Not only that, but he had produced the unreleasable (in the minds of the label and some of the band) Adult Child in the interim. It just wasn't a recent track record that would inspire confidence from a band of guys who each thought they could do better--and let's remember, who had been making records largely without Brian Wilson only five years earlier. That's true. Even Holland, which features very little Brian, charted higher.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 7, 2021 18:47:31 GMT
While I prefer those previous albums to MIU, I actually can't criticize the band's decision, either. This was a group that wasn't looking to make quirky outsider-art. That has been the result at times, but they all, including (and sometimes most vocally) Brian Wilson, wanted to score hits, to top the charts.
Brian's most recent production job comprised an album of a few big band arrangements by the quite corny (talented! great! but corny) Dick Reynolds; a few bizarre songs about cigarettes in the water, baseball, barely pubescent girls, standing in line for a movie, etc.; a couple of nearly decade-old songs; and some other odd covers. It didn't cohere: even if one liked the big band songs, or the old songs, or the weird new songs, or the covers, it was no sure thing one would like any (much less all) of the others.
His decision-making just wasn't any good at the time, even if his musical talents were still intact in that unwell mind of his.
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Post by kds on Jan 7, 2021 19:37:27 GMT
I'm probably in the minority, but I prefer MIU and LA to the two "Brian's Back" albums. I think we can debate the quality of each, but I don't think the greatly improved vocals on MIU and LA can really be debated.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 8, 2021 17:53:52 GMT
But, the question is, why didn't Brian Wilson produce the follow-up album to Love You, M.I.U.? Love You didn't keep Brian from producing the group again, as he went right into the Adult Child sessions. I'm not adding much at all to what Kapitan and KDS already said, but I just wanted to underscore that the release, and commercial failure, of LY hadn't occurred yet when Brian starting recording Adult/Child in early '77. Then, as you noted, it was subsequently rejected by the label. Also, in the summer of '78, prior to the release of MIU, "Almost Summer" was a hit. I'm sure that only reinforced to Mike and his team that they could do it better (though, they still needed Brian to contribute songwriting-wise).
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Post by kds on Feb 6, 2021 17:05:33 GMT
I remember reading this thing about Brian's LSD intake a few months ago and I was very intrigued. It's an interesting read, and even though it uses some official references it's mostly speculational... so I still have a lot of questions about this topic. It's no secret that drugs changed Brian's songwriting, composing and way of living. Unlike many other musicians, he admits it himself. But there are so many conflicting information spread throughout interviews and biographies about his relationship with LSD; Some people say he was constantly tripping during Pet Sounds and SMiLE's writing and recording while other (like the page I linked above) say that he had not even a handful of psychedelic experiences but they changed him completely So my question is: Do you think Brian really had a few LSD trips during the 60's OR do you think he was constantly on it during the writing of Pet Sounds and SMiLE? With Brian's mental illness, I think if he constantly took LSD for that period, he'd have wound up doing far more damage like Syd Barrett did.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 6, 2021 18:06:46 GMT
So my question is: Do you think Brian really had a few LSD trips during the 60's OR do you think he was constantly on it during the writing of Pet Sounds and SMiLE? It's my understanding from interviews and books from various sources - and I stand to be corrected - that Brian started taking LSD in late 1964 and into 1965 at his "new best friends'" houses. Loren Schwartz (Daro) was one of those "friends". Was it the LSD that influenced Brian's new (1965) introspective and expansive music? Schwartz seems to think so. Marilyn Wilson has said that Brian was never the same person again. Anyway, it's also my understanding that, regardless of his increased creativity, Brian had some "scary" trips, too, and basically moved on to other drugs. I think the drugs mentioned during the Pet Sounds and SMiLE sessions were not LSD, but mostly pills and marijuana.
In the ensuing years, when Brian discussed his drug intake in interviews, Brian has consistently blamed LSD for "messing up his brain". He has rarely mentioned other specific drugs or mental illness.
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Post by beachboystalk on Feb 16, 2021 1:05:40 GMT
I was listening to the radio this morning and on came "Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)" by The Eurythmics. That got me to thinking about Dave Stewart, and how he worked with Carnie and Wendy Wilson - and Brian Wilson - on the 1997 album, The Wilsons. That also got me to thinking how many people were "brought in" to work with Brian Wilson during his solo career. They, Brian's team, really tried to get something going, catch lightning in a bottle, create a spark - pick your cliche' - in getting Brian a hit, whether it be a hit album or a hit single. I guess they thought that these collaborators would bring to the game something that the solo Brian Wilson lacked. Maybe it was a song or part of a song. Maybe it was a different/additional voice. Maybe it was being more in touch with the then-present day music scene. Maybe it was simply being more familiar with modern studio technology that would result in a better sounding record.
Sadly, in the end, Brian never got that elusive hit album or hit single. Specifically, my question has to do with Brian's solo singles. Brian's highest charting single in the U.S. was "Your Imagination" which peaked at No. 103 on the Billboard Hot 100 Chart. It also hit No. 20 on the AC Chart. Oddly enough, two Christmas songs, "What I Really Want For Christmas" and "Deck The Halls" also charted on the U.S. AC Chart. It should be mentioned that a couple of singles from BWPS charted in the U.K.
My question? Which song, whether it was released as a single or not, do you think had the most potential to be that elusive hit single for the solo Brian Wilson? I actually have two that coincidentally come from the same album. First, I think that Brian's best solo song, or a song that is constantly in my personal Top Three, is "Lay Down Burden". I think it is an excellent song including the intro, melody, production, lyrics, and especially Brian's vocal. Oddly, to me anyway, it was never released as a single. The other song, "Dream Angel" is a song that has seldom been mentioned positively in published reviews and on various message boards. I find "Dream Angel" to very Beach Boyish in a good way. Again, I like the melody, production, and the vocals, both lead and background. I could hear it being played on the radio back in 1998.
Does anybody have a Brian Wilson solo song, that when you hear it, think that it shoulda/woulda/coulda been a hit single?
Man this is a REALLY good questions! I really dig his stuff on No Pier Pressure, but to answer the question, I think "Your Imagination" is a song that, in a different time or circumstance, might have been a bigger hit. I think the same for "Love and Mercy" - can you imagine "Love and Mercy" coming out on Love You, or earlier? Cool to think about.
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Post by beachboystalk on Feb 16, 2021 1:06:27 GMT
Personally I think Brian Wilson is one of his weakest solo albums in terms of songwriting. I really like some of it, to be sure. But other aspects I find pretty mediocre, from the hugely overrated "Rio Grande" to the tedious "One For the Boys." I'll grant an annoyingly mediocre "Night Time" and a pleasantly mediocre "Little Children", but nearly all BW solo albums have their mediocre low points. Night Time might be my least favorite song ever, and I have listened to The Spice Girls.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 16, 2021 14:55:27 GMT
I was listening to the radio this morning and on came "Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)" by The Eurythmics. That got me to thinking about Dave Stewart, and how he worked with Carnie and Wendy Wilson - and Brian Wilson - on the 1997 album, The Wilsons. That also got me to thinking how many people were "brought in" to work with Brian Wilson during his solo career. They, Brian's team, really tried to get something going, catch lightning in a bottle, create a spark - pick your cliche' - in getting Brian a hit, whether it be a hit album or a hit single. I guess they thought that these collaborators would bring to the game something that the solo Brian Wilson lacked. Maybe it was a song or part of a song. Maybe it was a different/additional voice. Maybe it was being more in touch with the then-present day music scene. Maybe it was simply being more familiar with modern studio technology that would result in a better sounding record.
Sadly, in the end, Brian never got that elusive hit album or hit single. Specifically, my question has to do with Brian's solo singles. Brian's highest charting single in the U.S. was "Your Imagination" which peaked at No. 103 on the Billboard Hot 100 Chart. It also hit No. 20 on the AC Chart. Oddly enough, two Christmas songs, "What I Really Want For Christmas" and "Deck The Halls" also charted on the U.S. AC Chart. It should be mentioned that a couple of singles from BWPS charted in the U.K.
My question? Which song, whether it was released as a single or not, do you think had the most potential to be that elusive hit single for the solo Brian Wilson? I actually have two that coincidentally come from the same album. First, I think that Brian's best solo song, or a song that is constantly in my personal Top Three, is "Lay Down Burden". I think it is an excellent song including the intro, melody, production, lyrics, and especially Brian's vocal. Oddly, to me anyway, it was never released as a single. The other song, "Dream Angel" is a song that has seldom been mentioned positively in published reviews and on various message boards. I find "Dream Angel" to very Beach Boyish in a good way. Again, I like the melody, production, and the vocals, both lead and background. I could hear it being played on the radio back in 1998.
Does anybody have a Brian Wilson solo song, that when you hear it, think that it shoulda/woulda/coulda been a hit single?
Man this is a REALLY good questions! I really dig his stuff on No Pier Pressure, but to answer the question, I think "Your Imagination" is a song that, in a different time or circumstance, might have been a bigger hit. I think the same for "Love and Mercy" - can you imagine "Love and Mercy" coming out on Love You, or earlier? Cool to think about. Oh, yes, "Your Imagination" definitely had the potential to chart higher, though it did reach No. 20 on the U.S. AC chart. It's funny, but "Your Imagination" is the only BW solo song that I ever/still hear in malls and grocery stores other than the occasional What I Really Want For Christmas songs.
I remember when Brian Wilson (1988) was released and "Love And Mercy" was released as a single. I SCOURED the radio day after day just to hear that song played...once. I never did. I love the song, I think it's a great song, and I just thought it had to attract some attention. Brian must've felt the same way because it's one of the few (only?) solo songs that he performed live on a regular basis.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 16, 2021 15:04:56 GMT
I have never understood the thinking that "Love and Mercy" (as done on that solo album) had hit potential. The song is simple but good, but I think it comes across far, far better in simpler arrangements more like the B-side of "Walking Down the Path of Life."
The '88 studio single version comes across to me as neither fish nor fowl. At its heart is reflective ballad, yet that version is robotic, mechanical, jam-packed with everything up to and including the kitchen sink, brash, brassy. It didn't age well, but it also didn't sound like the commercial music circa 1988 either. There were a bazillion power ballads, and this wasn't that. Neither did it sound like a classic Beach Boys song. It was just a mess of production that did the song a disservice.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 16, 2021 15:14:19 GMT
I have never understood the thinking that "Love and Mercy" (as done on that solo album) had hit potential. The song is simple but good, but I think it comes across far, far better in simpler arrangements more like the B-side of "Walking Down the Path of Life."
The '88 studio single version comes across to me as neither fish nor fowl. At its heart is reflective ballad, yet that version is robotic, mechanical, jam-packed with everything up to and including the kitchen sink, brash, brassy. It didn't age well, but it also didn't sound like the commercial music circa 1988 either. There were a bazillion power ballads, and this wasn't that. Neither did it sound like a classic Beach Boys song. It was just a mess of production that did the song a disservice. I basically agree with you about its single potential, though I still think it's a great song. "Love And Mercy" is flawed when considered as a single. However, I did think it had enough going for itself, enough merit, to at least chart and make a little noise. The "love and mercy is what you need tonight" hook, the harmonies on the bridge, and even the healing lyrics (though they were a little "preachy") could get to you. And, hey, it was a Brian Wilson single, and he hadn't failed yet at that point or become irrelevant. But that single tanked. Actually, it never even took off. I guess, ultimately, it was/is suited more as an album track.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 16, 2021 15:21:10 GMT
Not quite my position, but close. I do think it could have been a strong single, just not in that rendition.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 3, 2021 12:11:32 GMT
It's been written that Brian Wilson missed shows as early as 1963 in addition to 1964 before he officially left touring at the end of 1964. Question - was he replaced on stage? If yes, by whom? If not, who played bass (especially in 1963)?
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Post by kds on Mar 3, 2021 13:21:34 GMT
It's been written that Brian Wilson missed shows as early as 1963 in addition to 1964 before he officially left touring at the end of 1964. Question - was he replaced on stage? If yes, by whom? If not, who played bass (especially in 1963)? I think Al Jardine filled in for Brian in 1963.
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