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Post by B.E. on Oct 26, 2020 15:50:57 GMT
I've got no love for this project, but I'm just going to focus on the music here. Having just listened for the first time in years, my big takeaway is that it's not that bad. Obviously, the source material is outstanding. It's also professionally constructed. As a result, it's listenable. The only performance that really left me scratching my head was Sawyer Brown's "I Get Around" (who hardly sounded like a professional singer). I gotta say, though, getting a glimpse into what the Beach Boys could still sound like in the studio, produced some mixed emotions. Anyway, one thing I noticed is that a decent chunk of the album doesn't even sound particularly 'country'. Which, to me, is a plus. I also found that the ballads tended to work better ("Don't Worry Baby", "The Warmth Of The Sun", and "Caroline, No"). Additionally, "Sloop John B" was a pleasant surprise. "Be True To Your School" and "Fun Fun Fun" were enjoyable enough. In case it's not clear, though, I don't love any of these. These highlights are still only in that 5.5-7.5 range for me ( and mostly near the bottom of the range). Still, there's some nice guitar playing here and there, the harmonica on "The Warmth Of The Sun" is nice, the vocal arrangement on "Caroline, No" is interesting. Okay...that's all I got. 4/10 For further discussion: Album of the Week #62: Stars & Stripes, Vol. 1
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 26, 2020 16:51:43 GMT
Good thoughts. For me, the biggest problem with this album is that it is what it is at all. It's the decision to do what amounts to yet another hits/covers album. It's that decision of, "hey, let's NOT work on these new Wilson/Paley songs; let's NOT get Mike and Brian collaborating; let's NOT see what Carl's got going on. Instead, let's get (often not exactly A-list) country or country-pop singers to do our music, and we'll sing backups!"
It's an ultimate "wtf" moment. Which is to say it's par for the course.
At that point, it doesn't much matter to me what resulted. And you're right, the results were passable. Sometimes pretty good. But why? WHY? The world did not need more versions of these songs; whereas it would have been great hearing some new music from the Beach Boys, especially in that era of legacy acts having second (or third) winds, doing shows like Unplugged and Storytellers, etc.
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Post by kds on Oct 26, 2020 16:56:48 GMT
Good thoughts. For me, the biggest problem with this album is that it is what it is at all. It's the decision to do what amounts to yet another hits/covers album. It's that decision of, "hey, let's NOT work on these new Wilson/Paley songs; let's NOT get Mike and Brian collaborating; let's NOT see what Carl's got going on. Instead, let's get (often not exactly A-list) country or country-pop singers to do our music, and we'll sing backups!"
It's an ultimate "wtf" moment. Which is to say it's par for the course.
At that point, it doesn't much matter to me what resulted. And you're right, the results were passable. Sometimes pretty good. But why? WHY? The world did not need more versions of these songs; whereas it would have been great hearing some new music from the Beach Boys, especially in that era of legacy acts having second (or third) winds, doing shows like Unplugged and Storytellers, etc.
I'd agree on all counts. More than any other release by The Beach Boys, this one begs the question "Why does this exist?"
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 26, 2020 16:59:16 GMT
"We've got our resident genius songwriter-arranger back in the fold! He says he's writing a lot of new material. What should we do!?"
"Release an album of self-covers? Country style? Let somebody else sing 'em?"
"YES!"
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Post by B.E. on Oct 26, 2020 17:02:03 GMT
It really lends credence to the Melinda quote, doesn't it?
and on the group's tenseness surrounding the Fan Fair concert with Brian...
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 26, 2020 17:18:30 GMT
It really lends credence to the Melinda quote, doesn't it? Here is where I think they had such an unhealthy relationship for which all involved were responsible. (This is wildly speculative, but based on what I've heard, seen, and read about the band as well as just general life experience, including with mentally ill family and friends.)
It seems clear that Brian liked special treatment. He wanted to get off the road (and did). He acted "crazy" at times in what really, really seems like trolling (not that I'm disputing his mental health problems). He was a patient, sure, but also quite a manipulator as far as I can tell. Melinda makes it clear even in 2004 with the Smile documentary, talking about him acting up, even going to the hospital, until she "cut through this B.S. right away. I go, 'Brian, do you want to go to dinner?'" And he pops up from the grave. Point being, Brian always could take advantage of the situation. Could deflect blame by taking on new best friends and collaborators. By doing nothing. By acting strange.
But of course, he WAS mentally ill very often. He was screwed up on hard drugs some of the time. And the guys weren't monsters, contrary to popular opinion in some circles. They also knew he was their cash cow/golden goose/pick your metaphor. And so yeah, I'm sure they also played into it by babying him, by making him an oddball, by worrying and pandering. And that probably had mixed effects. It probably made him LESS responsible, LESS productive, not more. They treat him like an invalid, they baby him, they worry about him, and does it make him better? Safer? No, it makes him more fragile, more manipulative, less productive.
What might have been better for all involved would have been keeping him responsible for some basics. I don't know what: I'm in no position to say. But the idea is basically making someone consistently responsible for the most they can reasonably handle so that they have a challenge, but an achievable challenge, in front of them. For some people, that might be getting out of bed, showering, and dressing themselves. For others, going to work everyday whether they feel like it or not.
Eventually Landy did do something like this with Brian, but unfortunately it was combined with inappropriate, massive doses of drugs, his own manipulation, unethical business dealings, and an overall pathetic, neediness from Landy himself. But as far as imposing responsibility, I think that was the right thing for Brian.
So cut back to '95-'96, maybe they should have said, yeah, we're going to finish these damn songs you started with Paley. We're going to write a few more. YOU'RE going to finish them, too. You're going to dot the i's, cross the t's. That's your job. Sometimes when we need decisions, YOU'RE going to make them.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 26, 2020 17:48:43 GMT
My reading of the situation is similar.
As an aside, I'm hesitant to overemphasize Brian's propensity to manipulate (not that I think you are here, but many fans do), because everyone manipulates (and judges others, and acts selfishly), and on a near daily basis (and I'd argue none of which are inherently bad/wrong). Obviously, there are degrees and with Brian it is perceived to be greater, but I also tend to believe that it's mostly a symptom of, or significantly exacerbated by, his mental illness.
By the way, I added an additional quote to my previous post. I do think it speaks to the group's general view of Brian during this period. Not unfounded, but disappointing. And, I agree, very likely an unnecessary effect of their unhealthy relationships.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 26, 2020 17:55:17 GMT
I agree. I would add that (in my experience) addicts manipulate probably more than others, but certainly everyone takes advantage of his/her situations as best as s/he can. When and where that stuff becomes a problem is probably situational and not for me to say.
As for the singing quote, I recall that. I think it came up in the "do we tour Pet Sounds?" question around those days, too. Unfortunately for 20 years by that point, Brian was a dancing bear, a trained monkey for them as opposed to a functional band member. The monster was partly of their own creation.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 30, 2020 5:32:59 GMT
It really lends credence to the Melinda quote, doesn't it? and on the group's tenseness surrounding the Fan Fair concert with Brian... Well, based on his behavior for the previous 20 years, can you blame them? Sometimes he was very good onstage; other times, he just sat there at his grand piano, playing completely different songs, looking lost, bored, barely there. I'm not a big fan of Melinda. I never see her say anything good about the other band members - not even Carl or Dennis. If not for Carl, Brian may not even be with us today. As I understand it, it was Carl who took the initial steps that brought Landy back into Brian's life. And for that, everyone should be thankful. If Brian had continued down the road he was on, he would not have lasted much longer. Now that does not mitigate the bad side of Landy - and again, it was Carl who instigated the actions that would remove Landy from Brian's life. I just always feel like Melinda has a judgmental attitude towards the Wilsons - even Audree. I think that's unfair. If Murry was as bad as everyone says, then it should be no surprise that his songs ended up scarred for life. Maybe if Brian had grown up with a father that was more loving, he wouldn't feel the need to "act out". But back to the album. The documentary about the making of it is more interesting than the album itself. Such a disappointing way for the group to go out. At least with SIP, it felt like one member of the group was trying. With S&S, I just feel like, "why bother?"
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