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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 12:13:31 GMT
Honestly, if you're trying to fill two CDs with the best available songs, there isn't a slot for a single Cherone song. (This from a big fan of Extreme.) I've actually tried now twice in the last couple months to listen to VH3 to find some redeeming quality, and it's just not there.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 12:32:53 GMT
A Different Kind of Truth (2012)
In 2007, it finally happened. Van Halen announced a tour with David Lee Roth. Unfortunately, Wolfgang Van Halen was replacing Michael Anthony on bass. Mikey was not the same level of musician as Eddie, or even Alex for that matter, but his backing vocals were key to the VH sound. But, Eddie and Alex always treated Mikey like shit, trying to replace him as early as around 1982, and cutting him out the publishing. To his credit, Mikey took everything is stride, but it had to be a real pisser to read about the VH reunion on the internet. That's how he found out he was no longer in the band. I love you Eddie, and you'll be missed, but you and Alex did Mikey and the fans wrong.
Back to business, after some tours, VH went back into hibernation before surprisingly emerging with a brand new album in early 2012. Granted, it's mostly unused ideas from the old days, but it was a new VH album, and their best in years.
I was not at all a fan of the lead single Tattoo when it first came out, but I've softened on it over the years. I still think it's middle of the road, and She's the Woman (which dates back to their 1977 demo) should've been the lead single. But, at the end of the day, singles don't matter much for a band like Van Halen. Fans are still going to buy the album, and they did, almost sending the album to #1 (damn you, Adele).
Eddie's playing is top form. Dave's vocals are....well, they're pretty good overall. I'll say that Mikey's backing vocals are missed.
Other highlights include Blood and Fire, As Is, Big River, and China Town. The one blip for me is Stay Frosty, a lame rewrite of Ice Cream Man.
Overall, a solid album. I'll give it a 7.5 (some of those early DLR albums are 30 minutes for good reason). Sadly, it looks like the album will be Van Halen's swansong with Eddie's passing last week. But, it's a nice finale, even if it was only the second best reunion album of 2012.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 12:42:01 GMT
I had a busy couple of days work-wise, so I fell off a bit on listening along. That said, I did just listen to the Balance-onward albums a couple months ago (?) and discuss them on this board, though I forget why! Generally speaking, I agree with KDS on the assessments of each of those albums, though my resulting ratings would be a little lower across the board, too.
Balance, for me, fell flat. I enjoyed it somewhat at the time of its release, but much less when I relistened this year. III is just a shame: maybe they should've brought in Nuno instead of Cherone to add stronger songwriting, a second (brilliant) guitarist, and yet a good singer! (Obviously that's not a serious suggestion, as I know it never would've happened.) And really everything just went off the rails after that. Some bands--VH, the BBs, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac--just seemed incapable of keeping their shit together and making music that would (if nothing else) make them a lot of money and please a lot of people.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 12:57:29 GMT
It's a real shame that the last 20+ years were lacking so much Van Halen. I've read that Eddie just wasn't very motivated to do much even before he got cancer again. Maybe he figured he'd been an innovator, and there was really no where else to go. It also must have been a little frustrating for him as mainstream rock began to de-emphasize the guitar in the wake of grunge.
You can argue that Van Halen were better off not going out every summer and playing the same similar setlists. After all, with DLR in the band, they were limited to the six (seven after 2012) albums with him since he didn't have the range to sing the Sammy material.
It'll be interesting to see what the next few months bring. Will we get a Made in Heaven style "new" album? Maybe a box set? Maybe some live releases? Maybe, nothing.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 13:15:27 GMT
One thing I've read and heard numerous times over the past week or so since Eddie died as I checked out older interviews is that Eddie wasn't interested in anything modern ... basically ever. He claims not to have kept up on musical trends, not to listen to hit music, just to have mostly kept to his own wheelhouse. And while there are some nods to changing styles--both 5150/OU812 and F.U.C.K./Balance come to mind as at least acknowledging trends, if not going fully on board--it's true he never did really change too much to fit in.
My point is that maybe that partly accounts for his inactivity after III fell apart. Maybe the past few decades, he just didn't have anything to say. If you're exploring one little corner, and you've been exploring it for 20+ years, sooner or later there's just nothing else in that damn corner. And if you refuse to acknowledge the rest of the room outside of that corner...
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 13:32:02 GMT
One thing I've read and heard numerous times over the past week or so since Eddie died as I checked out older interviews is that Eddie wasn't interested in anything modern ... basically ever. He claims not to have kept up on musical trends, not to listen to hit music, just to have mostly kept to his own wheelhouse. And while there are some nods to changing styles--both 5150/OU812 and F.U.C.K./Balance come to mind as at least acknowledging trends, if not going fully on board--it's true he never did really change too much to fit in.
My point is that maybe that partly accounts for his inactivity after III fell apart. Maybe the past few decades, he just didn't have anything to say. If you're exploring one little corner, and you've been exploring it for 20+ years, sooner or later there's just nothing else in that damn corner. And if you refuse to acknowledge the rest of the room outside of that corner...
I can believe that Eddie may not have consciously listened to anything modern, but I agree that he at least subconsciously moved with the tide a bit. Although VH3 is probably the most anti 1998 album one can think of. That should've been a good thing, but it wasn't.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 13:38:31 GMT
Here's my ranking of the dozen Van Halen LPs. Van Halen are one of those bands who you always think were more prolific than they were. The Who are the same, although The Who had albums worth of non album tracks.
Van Halen - s/t - 10 5150 - 9 Women and Children First - 9 Van Halen II - 9 Fair Warning - 9 1984 - 9 For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge - 8 Diver Down - 7.5 A Different Kind of Truth - 7.5 OU812 - 7 Balance - 6 Van Halen 3 - 2
I usually say that I enjoy the Roth and Hagar eras almost equally, but I will concede that the overall material and album quality from the original band is far more consistent than the Sammy era, although the Sammy era had some really high highs.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 13:40:03 GMT
To be clear, I'm also not saying he should have followed trends or anything. I'm just saying you do need raw material if you want to keep being creative. If he was still listening to Cream and Hendrix and Dave Clark Five (apparently his favorite, from what I hear) in the late '90s, well, he's already presented just about every permutation of that stuff. To hear new music is to intellectually engage, at least--even if your resulting new music is a rejection of it, a negative response.
All hypothesis, of course. He also might have just decided, "I'm rich, I've done it all, and I'm tired. I don't need this."
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 14:00:53 GMT
To be clear, I'm also not saying he should have followed trends or anything. I'm just saying you do need raw material if you want to keep being creative. If he was still listening to Cream and Hendrix and Dave Clark Five (apparently his favorite, from what I hear) in the late '90s, well, he's already presented just about every permutation of that stuff. To hear new music is to intellectually engage, at least--even if your resulting new music is a rejection of it, a negative response.
All hypothesis, of course. He also might have just decided, "I'm rich, I've done it all, and I'm tired. I don't need this."
I tend to agree with that hypothesis. Especially since Eddie seems to be one of those guitar greats who doesn't always play nice with people. I suppose more power to Eddie for doing what he wants rather than going through the motions on the tour circuit every summer. I'm thankful I got to see Van Halen in person four times, twice with Sammy, twice with Dave. I suppose, when concerts are a thing again, the former members not named Van Halen will continue to fly the VH flag. David had been the opening act on KISS's most recent farewell tour. And Sammy and Michael Anthony have been playing together for the better part of the last 15 years.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 14:21:05 GMT
For S&G's, from the Home Office in Sioux City, Iowa, the KDS Top Ten Van Halen Songs on October 15, 2020
1. When It's Love 2. I'm the One 3. Atomic Punk 4. Dreams 5. Take Your Whiskey Home 6. Light Up the Sky 7. Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love 8. Top of the World 9. Mean Street 10. Little Dreamer
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 15:17:20 GMT
While I have to admit I don't really know any VH die-hard fans, it seems to me that "Dreams" is a hugely underrated gem of theirs. I just love it, and always have since it was first released back in the '80s. In some ways it doesn't sound like classic VH--similar to "Right Now" in that respect (not that it sounds similar to "Right Now" but that both don't sound a lot like VH to me)--but yet it works perfectly. Super melodic almost anthemic, soaring melody.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 15:40:10 GMT
While I have to admit I don't really know any VH die-hard fans, it seems to me that "Dreams" is a hugely underrated gem of theirs. I just love it, and always have since it was first released back in the '80s. In some ways it doesn't sound like classic VH--similar to "Right Now" in that respect (not that it sounds similar to "Right Now" but that both don't sound a lot like VH to me)--but yet it works perfectly. Super melodic almost anthemic, soaring melody. Dreams, like When It's Love, probably strays into AOR type rock a bit moreso than the music from VH's first four albums. But, I think there are enough Van Halen Hallmarks to satisfy VH diehards. I really think a lot of those big songs from the Sammy era, it was just a bit of a progression with the band. I compare it to when Ronnie James Dio replaced Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath. Songs like Heaven and Hell, Children of the Sea, and Sign of the Southern Cross don't really sound much like classic Sabbath, but are still amazing. But, since Sabbath didn't have any #1 hits with Ronnie, the fanbase is a little more accepting of that change.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 15:57:07 GMT
Sammy also just brought a different kind of cowriter to the band. Dave did what Dave did, but Sammy had his own voice (literally and symbolically). So of course the music changed somewhat.
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Post by kds on Oct 15, 2020 16:05:59 GMT
Sammy also just brought a different kind of cowriter to the band. Dave did what Dave did, but Sammy had his own voice (literally and symbolically). So of course the music changed somewhat. I agree. And I really think a lot of the anti Sammy stuff is due to the fact that Van Halen suddenly had #1 albums and #1 singles. And, for reasons unknown, to a very vocal group of hard rock fans, that popularity is reason enough to turn your back on a band and create false narratives like "Sammy turned them pop." Speaking of the Sam and Dave thing, Wolfgang took to social media a few months ago, basically saying the Sam v. Dave debate is stupid and both versions kick ass. I wonder if he knew he father's time was coming, and wanted fans to start appreciating both versions.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 15, 2020 16:58:47 GMT
And I really think a lot of the anti Sammy stuff is due to the fact that Van Halen suddenly had #1 albums and #1 singles. And, for reasons unknown, to a very vocal group of hard rock fans, that popularity is reason enough to turn your back on a band and create false narratives like "Sammy turned them pop." Speaking of the Sam and Dave thing, Wolfgang took to social media a few months ago, basically saying the Sam v. Dave debate is stupid and both versions kick ass. I wonder if he knew he father's time was coming, and wanted fans to start appreciating both versions. On that first paragraph, slightly OT but relevant, this reminds me of a few years ago on another board (I think SSMB but it could've been one of the others) when I was trying to make a similar point as it relates to hipster-elitism: I was saying that some people seem to take honest pride in their favorites being unpopular (and unknown), and that once those things become popular, the entire point is gone for them and they abandon their now-popular, former favorites. I got a TON of shit. "Who would like things specifically because they're unpopular? Who would wish lack of success on musicians?" And so on. I stood behind it then and still do. People are weird, man, what do you want me to do about it? Psychologically, we do things that seem on the surface really strange!
On the second point, good for Wolfie. He's right.
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