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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 13:19:21 GMT
When talking about the upcoming Feel Flows release, Howie Edelson mentioned that the release would forever change the perception of The Beach Boys.
While I respect his opinions, I'm just not sure if a niche boxset would really move the needle and get the public at large to pay attention to the 1969-71 material.
So, here's a question, what, if anything, could nudge that needle?
It seems that no matter what The Beach Boys do, be it career encompassing box sets, having Feel Flows in the Almost Famous movie, high profile reunions with long career spanning setlists, XM Sirius channels, the public at large still gravitates to their 1962-66 era music (and maybe Kokomo).
I actually think there was a chance in 2007. In 2003, Sounds of Summer, a 30 song single CD comp was released, and sold very well, essentially becoming the 21st Century equivalent of Endless Summer. It still appears in the Top 100 every summer. In 2007, a second volume was released - The Warmth of the Sun. This release included several of the 60s hits that didn't make it on SOS, as well as some deeper tracks from Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP, and Holland. But, this release didn't exactly set the world on fire. Perhaps had they just called it "More Sounds of Summer" or "Sounds of Summer Vol 2" it might've caught more eyes on the shelves at Walmart, Target, and Best Buy. I think it's the perfect collection for anyone looking to explore the BB beyond the 60s hits.
So, here as we enter August 2020, can anything really nudge casual fans and music fans at large to reassess The Beach Boys late 60s and 1970s material?
I think perhaps if a director pairs a BB song from that era with a very memorable movie scene, it might give that era a boost. I say might, because I'm pretty sure a recent TV show tried (the show escapes me, and Google searches are not helping). And, like I said, Feel Flows was played over the credits on Almost Famous (and can barely be heard in the background of an airport scene).
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2020 13:40:49 GMT
I think the most likely way perceptions will change is the same way things outside of music apparently tend to change. I say "apparently" because while I have heard it said as a "fact" of social science, I can't verify that. It does make sense, though.
That idea is that most people don't actually change their minds about many things. Rather, they age and die (or in the case of music, maybe just become more irrelevant to the commercial and cultural importance), and new generations with new opinions replace them. This apparently has a lot to do with changing opinions over time about acceptance of interracial mingling/marriage/etc., religion, LGBT issues, etc.
Similarly, reputations of presidents or historical figures change as different people assess them over generations, not because the people themselves changed or even necessarily that new information came out about them.
I think it makes sense that the biggest changes in the Beach Boys' reputation will come not among people who already have opinions, but among new people. Just as I continue to despise the '80s synth pop that I always despised because it was just marked as awful in my formative years but millennials found that exact same music and labeled it brilliant (probably in part because it contrasted with what people my age told them was brilliant and everyone wants to "discover their own thing"), it is possible that a different cultural presentation of the Beach Boys is made to GenZ or the next generation, then as they overtake the mainstream culture, the Beach Boys' reputation will change.
This has already happened, for example as 90s indie types "discovered" Brian Wilson and reassessed the Beach Boys based on that appreciation and angle, whereas their elder siblings and maybe parents might have considered them a lame surf band.
So that's my answer: a new generation may well formulate different opinions of the band (as different generations already have a few times before).
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 13:52:24 GMT
I think that's indeed possible as future generations get into The Beach Boys, especially since streaming platforms have made it easier than ever to listen to an extensive back catalog without the monetary investment it used to take to buy 30 albums.
But, more immediate, I thought of another way to draw attention to the post Good Vibrations Beach Boys. Perhaps if some young artist did a cover of one of those songs, it could raise a few eyebrows.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2020 13:57:50 GMT
But, more immediate, I thought of another way to draw attention to the post Good Vibrations Beach Boys. Perhaps if some young artist did a cover of one of those songs, it could raise a few eyebrows. It certainly could. But it's also one of those "lightning in a bottle" things that might work, but also more often than not just fizzles as an obvious marketing move. Legacy artists with young guest stars--*cough cough* Sebu--sometimes just come across as bad ideas. I know that's not exactly the same thing, but it's in the same universe.
I'm trying to think of recent examples of a contemporary artist covering a legacy artist and it really benefitting the legacy artist.
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 14:09:10 GMT
The only example I can think of is an early 00s pop punk cover of Under Pressure. I don't have any data to back it up, but I feel like the original Queen + David Bowie song started getting some more spins after that cover came out. But, whether that's true or my imagination, Queen didn't really need that kind of help by 2003 (?).
In the streaming age, a cover might entice some people to check out the original. Just a theory, again without data.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 4, 2020 15:03:27 GMT
I think the perception of The Beach Boys - and Brian Wilson - is pretty well set, and, while I won't be around to see it decades from now , I don't think the needle will move very much either way. Every major recording the group did has been released. All we're going to get in the future are alternate takes, live versions, and maybe a hidden gem here or there. After Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" in 1966, The Beach Boys ceased to exist as a major recording act. After that, speaking about music fans in general, the Beach Boys were a fading group, and many of their fans left. Thus, you got many albums and singles that didn't perform nearly as well as their predecessors. That really never changed. They tried and tried and tried. And now it's over. "Brian's Back" didn't move the needle. The boxed set(s) didn't move the needle. BWPS and The SMiLE Sessions didn't move the needle. And, Brian Wilson's solo career, complete with albums, books, and movies didn't move the needle. I think you could say that more people are more aware of The Beach Boys' story, but musically speaking, no, things haven't really changed much, and I don't think they will.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2020 15:30:36 GMT
But SJS, to reiterate my thoughts on it as a challenge to you, how would you account for their and other bands' reassessments that happen all the time as generations come and go? My reference was 80s pop music--think Phil Collins or even Hall & Oates--which was as uncool as uncool could be in the 90s and early 00s but became serious influences on musicians beginning in the late 00s through the present. Or the Monkees, who were mocked forever as "not real musicians" only to be reassessed in the past decade, or Love, which was basically forgotten but re-emerged as a major influence and even touring act, etc. Tony Bennett had a major resurgence in the ... I forget when, maybe late 90s or early 00s?
People reassess history all the time. The output doesn't have to change at all for the perception to change.
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 15:31:31 GMT
I think the perception of The Beach Boys - and Brian Wilson - is pretty well set, and, while I won't be around to see it decades from now , I don't think the needle will move very much either way. Every major recording the group did has been released. All we're going to get in the future are alternate takes, live versions, and maybe a hidden gem here or there. After Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" in 1966, The Beach Boys ceased to exist as a major recording act. After that, speaking about music fans in general, the Beach Boys were a fading group, and many of their fans left. Thus, you got many albums and singles that didn't perform nearly as well as their predecessors. That really never changed. They tried and tried and tried. And now it's over. "Brian's Back" didn't move the needle. The boxed set(s) didn't move the needle. BWPS and The SMiLE Sessions didn't move the needle. And, Brian Wilson's solo career, complete with albums, books, and movies didn't move the needle. I think you could say that more people are more aware of The Beach Boys' story, but musically speaking, no, things haven't really changed much, and I don't think they will. I agree with this. And even Brian Wilson's movie didn't do anything to help the perception that not much really happened after the Pet Sounds / Smile era.
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 15:33:41 GMT
But SJS, to reiterate my thoughts on it as a challenge to you, how would you account for their and other bands' reassessments that happen all the time as generations come and go? My reference was 80s pop music--think Phil Collins or even Hall & Oates--which was as uncool as uncool could be in the 90s and early 00s but became serious influences on musicians beginning in the late 00s through the present. Or the Monkees, who were mocked forever as "not real musicians" only to be reassessed in the past decade, or Love, which was basically forgotten but re-emerged as a major influence and even touring act, etc. Tony Bennett had a major resurgence in the ... I forget when, maybe late 90s or early 00s?
People reassess history all the time. The output doesn't have to change at all for the perception to change.
I think the main difference there is those reassessments for Phil Collins, The Monkees, and Hall and Oates have helped their already well known material. The Beach Boys prime era (ie. 1960s hits) have gone through such reassessments and rediscoveries several times already.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2020 15:38:14 GMT
But SJS, to reiterate my thoughts on it as a challenge to you, how would you account for their and other bands' reassessments that happen all the time as generations come and go? My reference was 80s pop music--think Phil Collins or even Hall & Oates--which was as uncool as uncool could be in the 90s and early 00s but became serious influences on musicians beginning in the late 00s through the present. Or the Monkees, who were mocked forever as "not real musicians" only to be reassessed in the past decade, or Love, which was basically forgotten but re-emerged as a major influence and even touring act, etc. Tony Bennett had a major resurgence in the ... I forget when, maybe late 90s or early 00s?
People reassess history all the time. The output doesn't have to change at all for the perception to change.
I think the main difference there is those reassessments for Phil Collins, The Monkees, and Hall and Oates have helped their already well known material. The Beach Boys prime era (ie. 1960s hits) have gone through such reassessments and rediscoveries several times already. BUT if we're talking about the early 70s material, that would be more akin to examples like Love or even the Zombies O&O, which weren't necessarily widely known and have had a new appreciation well after the fact.
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 15:41:37 GMT
I think the main difference there is those reassessments for Phil Collins, The Monkees, and Hall and Oates have helped their already well known material. The Beach Boys prime era (ie. 1960s hits) have gone through such reassessments and rediscoveries several times already. BUT if we're talking about the early 70s material, that would be more akin to examples like Love or even the Zombies O&O, which weren't necessarily widely known and have had a new appreciation well after the fact. Maybe so, but Love and The Zombies don't exactly have that string of hits that The Beach Boys had. I hope you're right that maybe the BB catalog will be reevaluated one day. But, I think it might need an assist. Kokomo popping up in TV shows probably isn't that assist.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 4, 2020 15:59:32 GMT
But SJS, to reiterate my thoughts on it as a challenge to you, how would you account for their and other bands' reassessments that happen all the time as generations come and go? My reference was 80s pop music--think Phil Collins or even Hall & Oates--which was as uncool as uncool could be in the 90s and early 00s but became serious influences on musicians beginning in the late 00s through the present. Or the Monkees, who were mocked forever as "not real musicians" only to be reassessed in the past decade, or Love, which was basically forgotten but re-emerged as a major influence and even touring act, etc. Tony Bennett had a major resurgence in the ... I forget when, maybe late 90s or early 00s?
People reassess history all the time. The output doesn't have to change at all for the perception to change.
Yes, reassessments do happen all the time and The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson have probably been reassessed more than most major groups. But, where do those reassessments go? Is it reflected in sales? Increased airplay on radio? Future accolades (awards, inductions, tributes)? The Beach Boys and Brian have certainly had their share of these. I think the most eye-opening one was Brian (by himself) receiving that Kennedy Center honor in 2007. That was a huge recognition and I don't think enough was written about it in Beach Boys' circles regarding how the group was left out of the honor.
But, in addressing kds's question, how much did it move the needle? Look at Brian's solo career. He has had overwhelming positive press. He had several "legends" (McCartney, Clapton, Dylan, Paul Simon, Neil Young, Elton John, etc.) come out and acknowledge him. He's received numerous awards in the last twenty years. And, he even had a movie made about him - not The Beach Boys, but him. With all of that, how was it reflected in Brian's record sales, and concert ticket sales for that matter? In many ways, Brian has remained a cult artist. How many music fans even know his name? Is he Carl, Dennis, or Brian? Which one drowned? Who befriended Charles Manson? Oh, Brian Wilson, is he the one with mental problems? After 30 years of being a solo artist, how much do you think the needle moved on Brian Wilson? Yes, we read the stories about young musicians who were influenced by Brian's music, but where does that lead?
The same can be said for The Beach Boys. They can continue to release these copyright saving compilations for the next thirty years, but Sounds Of Summer will outsell 'em all! Reassessment? What reassessment?
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2020 16:09:00 GMT
Brian Wilson has been rightfully acknowledged as a legend, but his solo sales aren't going to match his former band because he never really had that big solo hit. So, his solo albums will continue to appeal solely to die hard fans, but in general go unnoticed.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 4, 2020 20:40:18 GMT
I think the music just needs to be out there in pop culture. Darlin' was a central piece in a Big Bang theory episode and it really boosted its streaming numbers. It also brought attention to a song that not everyone knew about. Similarly, Kokomo has been either the most or second most streamed Beach Boys song over the past few months due to it being featured in a couple of shows recently. As long as the music is viewed as relevant, people will continue to listen.
Obviously, current artists talking positively about the music helps a lot as well. If Taylor Swift told all of her fans how great Surfer Girl is, that song would be getting hundreds of thousands of streams per day.
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Mike's the Greatest!!
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Post by Mike's the Greatest!! on Aug 4, 2020 20:47:08 GMT
No, nothing can change the perception of the BB's at this point in any major way. And it's not a problem.
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