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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 18:09:43 GMT
The title track for The Last DJ had me very excited, but it turned out to be a pretty mediocre album overall. Yeah, I think it was his most mediocre to date. I vaguely remember being excited by the title track at the time of its release, but I relistened to the album about a month ago and it actually turned out to be my least favorite song. To be honest, that sounds like a ringing endorsement, and I might have to listen to the album again.
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 18:12:58 GMT
That was pretty much my intention when I posted this. I actually do like several of the albums I deemed "non essential." Personally, I also can't just say every album by my favorite band is "essential" because I just don't feel that way. I agree. In fact, for the Beach Boys, I still think Pet Sounds is the only essential album. I really love about 10 others, and like something on almost all of them, but I can't say they're essential.
Also I look at essential as, does this album matter in rock music history? Is it the kind of thing you'd learn in K-12 education, if K-12 education taught popular music the same way it does American history and basic biology? That kind of thing. Just as you can dig in deep to the Civil War, really understand all the key characters, the motivations, the legislation, the executive actions, the battles, the strategies, what most people do is get a basic understanding: names, dates, basic reason, the end.
Can you be reasonably educated in popular music if you don't have that album in question? That's kind of how I'd look at it.
I think we're on the same page for the most part, although some of the artists I picked I don't really think have that "essential to rock music" type of album (ie. Blue Oyster Cult, as much as I love them). I'm 100% with you on The Beach Boys.
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Post by B.E. on Apr 1, 2020 18:19:39 GMT
Yeah, I think it was his most mediocre to date. I vaguely remember being excited by the title track at the time of its release, but I relistened to the album about a month ago and it actually turned out to be my least favorite song. To be honest, that sounds like a ringing endorsement, and I might have to listen to the album again. Well, I hope I haven't inadvertently steered you down the wrong path! But, if you do listen again, I'd be curious to know which songs you like. While it might be my least favorite Petty album, I still like "Have Love Will Travel", "The Man Who Loves Women", "When A Kid Goes Bad", "Joe", and "Can't Stop The Sun". A few others are decent, too. Still, I don't love those songs, not like much of his earlier work.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 1, 2020 18:24:25 GMT
I think we're too easily designating the albums as non-essential. They might not be good, they might even approach bad, but I think even one or two songs qualifies an album as being essential, assuming those one or two songs are essential. The best example I can use would be That's Why God Made The Radio (and it's just a personal opinion). To me, there are only one or two songs that salvage the album, and I have to seriously question if those two songs are strong enough to make the album rise to essential. It's very, very close.
And, taking my own advice, I probably should reconsider my designating Carl Wilson's first solo album as non-essential. "Heaven" is a tremendous song. Essential listening.
I wanted to correct the above post. I meant What I Really Want For Christmas, not That's Why God Made The Radio, though the message of the post stands, which obviously is being disagreed with. But that's OK; it makes for good conversation.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 1, 2020 18:28:52 GMT
though the message of the post stands, which obviously is being disagreed with. But that's OK; it makes for good conversation. Definitely! Three pages already in just about six hours. If our habits were just a post and a few "agreed" responses, I'd quit this board!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 1, 2020 18:30:42 GMT
I think we're too easily designating the albums as non-essential. They might not be good, they might even approach bad, but I think even one or two songs qualifies an album as being essential, assuming those one or two songs are essential. The best example I can use would be That's Why God Made The Radio (and it's just a personal opinion). To me, there are only one or two songs that salvage the album, and I have to seriously question if those two songs are strong enough to make the album rise to essential. It's very, very close.
And, taking my own advice, I probably should reconsider my designating Carl Wilson's first solo album as non-essential. "Heaven" is a tremendous song. Essential listening.
I think you and I have differing views on this exercise. For me, it takes more than one or two tracks to seem an album "essential." Take the Genesis album We Can't Dance. I'm actually a fan of the poppier version of Genesis, and I like 4-5 songs on the album, but to be the album is overly long, and has way too much fluff. And for the most part, the best tracks can be found on various Genesis compilations. Yes, that is our/my basic disagreement. We are obviously viewing the term "essential" differently. I really do think a song or two rises an album to essential status. I guess I would fall into that "Hey, you gotta buy that album just for that one song..." category. And I've done it.
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Post by B.E. on Apr 1, 2020 18:30:48 GMT
If you could only ensure one Doors album is listened to by all music fans for generations to come, which one would it be? SJS, I'm really curious which album you'd pick. I'm trying to make an equally impossible decision myself - which Beatles album? I can't quite go with Abbey Road, as KDS did (although he wasn't directly answering this exact question), because it feels too much like a later period album to me. I think I gotta go with Revolver in order to get a better representation of their overall sound and styles throughout their career.
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 18:33:50 GMT
To be honest, that sounds like a ringing endorsement, and I might have to listen to the album again. Well, I hope I haven't inadvertently steered you down the wrong path! But, if you do listen again, I'd be curious to know which songs you like. While it might be my least favorite Petty album, I still like "Have Love Will Travel", "The Man Who Loves Women", "When A Kid Goes Bad", "Joe", and "Can't Stop The Sun". A few others are decent, too. Still, I don't love those songs, not like much of his earlier work. I'll let you know if I actually do it.
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 18:37:04 GMT
I think you and I have differing views on this exercise. For me, it takes more than one or two tracks to seem an album "essential." Take the Genesis album We Can't Dance. I'm actually a fan of the poppier version of Genesis, and I like 4-5 songs on the album, but to be the album is overly long, and has way too much fluff. And for the most part, the best tracks can be found on various Genesis compilations. Yes, that is our/my basic disagreement. We are obviously viewing the term "essential" differently. I really do think a song or two rises an album to essential status. I guess I would fall into that "Hey, you gotta buy that album just for that one song..." category. And I've done it. We're getting into semantics here, but I just don't think that qualifies as album as "essential." Especially if, like I mentioned, those songs can be found elsewhere. That's why I honestly think Smiley Smile might be the least essential BB album. I probably have the single versions of GV and H&V on at least three or four other comps that I own. Everything else, I can honestly do without.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 1, 2020 18:40:35 GMT
Yes, that is our/my basic disagreement. We are obviously viewing the term "essential" differently. I really do think a song or two rises an album to essential status. I guess I would fall into that "Hey, you gotta buy that album just for that one song..." category. And I've done it. We're getting into semantics here, but I just don't think that qualifies as album as "essential." Especially if, like I mentioned, those songs can be found elsewhere. That's why I honestly think Smiley Smile might be the least essential BB album. I probably have the single versions of GV and H&V on at least three or four other comps that I own. Everything else, I can honestly do without. Well, now you're bring another factor, another consideration into the debate. What if the songs on the original album later become available through comps? Does that reduce the "essentialness" of the original album?
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 18:42:31 GMT
We're getting into semantics here, but I just don't think that qualifies as album as "essential." Especially if, like I mentioned, those songs can be found elsewhere. That's why I honestly think Smiley Smile might be the least essential BB album. I probably have the single versions of GV and H&V on at least three or four other comps that I own. Everything else, I can honestly do without. Well, now you're bring another factor, another consideration into the debate. What if the songs on the original album later become available through comps? Does that reduce the "essentialness" of the original album? I think it absolutely does, especially if you're only deeming an album "essential" on the basis of a couple tracks.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 1, 2020 18:57:02 GMT
That was pretty much my intention when I posted this. I actually do like several of the albums I deemed "non essential." Personally, I also can't just say every album by my favorite band is "essential" because I just don't feel that way. I agree. In fact, for the Beach Boys, I still think Pet Sounds is the only essential album. I really love about 10 others, and like something on almost all of them, but I can't say they're essential.
Also I look at essential as, does this album matter in rock music history? Is it the kind of thing you'd learn in K-12 education, if K-12 education taught popular music the same way it does American history and basic biology? That kind of thing. Just as you can dig in deep to the Civil War, really understand all the key characters, the motivations, the legislation, the executive actions, the battles, the strategies, what most people do is get a basic understanding: names, dates, basic reason, the end.
Can you be reasonably educated in popular music if you don't have that album in question? That's kind of how I'd look at it.
That would eliminate quite a few, actually most, albums that I own!
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 1, 2020 19:08:02 GMT
Of course. It would do that for almost everyone who is a serious fan, I'd guess. It's like the difference between a bookshelf full of whatever it is you love, and a bookshelf with the Reader's Digest Great Books collection. The latter is the equivalent of essential albums, or of the typical public education "survey course" of American history or literature. You're not going to get into depth or obscure things by definition.
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 19:17:47 GMT
I agree. In fact, for the Beach Boys, I still think Pet Sounds is the only essential album. I really love about 10 others, and like something on almost all of them, but I can't say they're essential.
Also I look at essential as, does this album matter in rock music history? Is it the kind of thing you'd learn in K-12 education, if K-12 education taught popular music the same way it does American history and basic biology? That kind of thing. Just as you can dig in deep to the Civil War, really understand all the key characters, the motivations, the legislation, the executive actions, the battles, the strategies, what most people do is get a basic understanding: names, dates, basic reason, the end.
Can you be reasonably educated in popular music if you don't have that album in question? That's kind of how I'd look at it.
That would eliminate quite a few, actually most, albums that I own! That would be quite a few for me as well. But, that's what happens when you collect catalogs of artists with careers that span 30, 40, 50 years or more. They can't all be "essential."
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Post by kds on Apr 1, 2020 19:40:34 GMT
To be honest, that sounds like a ringing endorsement, and I might have to listen to the album again. Well, I hope I haven't inadvertently steered you down the wrong path! But, if you do listen again, I'd be curious to know which songs you like. While it might be my least favorite Petty album, I still like "Have Love Will Travel", "The Man Who Loves Women", "When A Kid Goes Bad", "Joe", and "Can't Stop The Sun". A few others are decent, too. Still, I don't love those songs, not like much of his earlier work. So, I did just listen to The Last DJ for the first time in a long time. The title track is still by far my favorite song. I like Joe a lot, and Like a Diamond. But, for the most part, the album was just as unmemorable as I recall. Not terrible by any stretch, but not good, and definitely not essential. Speaking of Petty The Traveling Wilburys - Vol 1 / Vol 3
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