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Post by lonelysummer on Mar 13, 2020 2:49:55 GMT
It's been a few years since I've listened to SI, I need to give it another spin. My cd is called the "Millennium Edition", whatever that means. The tracks all sound like they have a ton of reverb on them. The songs that always stand out to me are "Do You Have Any Regrets (I Do)" and "Thank You (Brian)". Never cared for "Smart Girls". Which one is it that has a verse from "Let's Go to Heaven In My Car"? "Water Builds Up"? It just sounds weird having that verse in there. The vocals are good, the songs are overproduced, but I do wish this had been released. Instead, we had to wait 7 years between albums...and then, we got two in the same year, without one new BW song.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 13, 2020 23:56:36 GMT
Brian's vocals, while inconsistent, do sound somewhat younger than his subsequent ones. However, they also sound kind of weird in places, like he didn't know how he wanted to sing. I got the feeling he was having problems figuring out how how wanted to sound if that makes sense. There were instances where he would rock and times he would be gentle.
I kind of think he was doing it on purpose, as if he was singing in different Beach Boys voices. Someone to Love is a perfect example. He sings in three different styles in that song, but very deliberately, in different parts. The first part of each verse is nasal - that’s Mike. The next part of each verse is either Brian himself or Carl - and he sounds friggin’ fantastic in those sections. And then in chorus when he goes all gruff and rocks out (which sounds awesome, I love it!), well maybe that’s Dennis. But anyway, I’m not so sure it was him trying to find his voice so much as thinking about those songs the way he thought about Beach Boys songs, and how each part should be sung, and who in his mind would be singing them. Maybe he didn’t do that on every song, but I do think the deliberate way he sang in different voices on Someone to Love is an indication that he was still thinking that way, and that there are instances where he was trying to channel a certain Beach Boy's voice. He really does sing fantastically well on most of these songs. Too bad about Water Builds Up being such a dumb song - it might his best vocal of that time period. Oh, I agree. I think Brian was trying to channel individual Beach Boys with his vocals, but it never quite worked. The main reason, of course, is that his voice was basically ruined in 1974-75, never quite recovered, and he couldn't duplicate other Beach Boys' voices other than the occasional bass vocal of Mike. And, that's also the main reason why I wished Brian would NOT have gone solo. He needed the Beach Boys' voices to make his songs reach their full potential, which I feel they did not.
But there was something else about Brian's "solo" vocals which was troublesome, and I often think it was related to his mental illness. When Brian did deliberately try to sing a particular part a particular way, it often sounded exaggerated. It's like if he attempted a falsetto, he didn't go there naturally like the past, it sounded forced or shrill or too falsetto-ey, and I used to wonder if he even knew how forced it sounded. If he wanted to employ a rock and roll voice, not Mike's nasal rock and roll voice, I mean a ROCK voice, that too was exaggerated and over-the-top. He was almost out of control. When Brian attempted to go "gentle", yes, he had some success and I wish he would've gone there more often. That's when he sounded most...normal.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Mar 14, 2020 11:45:59 GMT
I kind of think he was doing it on purpose, as if he was singing in different Beach Boys voices. Someone to Love is a perfect example. He sings in three different styles in that song, but very deliberately, in different parts. The first part of each verse is nasal - that’s Mike. The next part of each verse is either Brian himself or Carl - and he sounds friggin’ fantastic in those sections. And then in chorus when he goes all gruff and rocks out (which sounds awesome, I love it!), well maybe that’s Dennis. But anyway, I’m not so sure it was him trying to find his voice so much as thinking about those songs the way he thought about Beach Boys songs, and how each part should be sung, and who in his mind would be singing them. Maybe he didn’t do that on every song, but I do think the deliberate way he sang in different voices on Someone to Love is an indication that he was still thinking that way, and that there are instances where he was trying to channel a certain Beach Boy's voice. He really does sing fantastically well on most of these songs. Too bad about Water Builds Up being such a dumb song - it might his best vocal of that time period. Oh, I agree. I think Brian was trying to channel individual Beach Boys with his vocals, but it never quite worked. The main reason, of course, is that his voice was basically ruined in 1974-75, never quite recovered, and he couldn't duplicate other Beach Boys' voices other than the occasional bass vocal of Mike. And, that's also the main reason why I wished Brian would NOT have gone solo. He needed the Beach Boys' voices to make his songs reach their full potential, which I feel they did not.
But there was something else about Brian's "solo" vocals which was troublesome, and I often think it was related to his mental illness. When Brian did deliberately try to sing a particular part a particular way, it often sounded exaggerated. It's like if he attempted a falsetto, he didn't go there naturally like the past, it sounded forced or shrill or too falsetto-ey, and I used to wonder if he even knew how forced it sounded. If he wanted to employ a rock and roll voice, not Mike's nasal rock and roll voice, I mean a ROCK voice, that too was exaggerated and over-the-top. He was almost out of control. When Brian attempted to go "gentle", yes, he had some success and I wish he would've gone there more often. That's when he sounded most...normal.
Hmm, when you put it that way, I get where you're coming from. Though I'm wondering if it's not so much to do with his mental illness, but with the "Landy Makeover." There is a kind of assertiveness to it, like a false confidence. It makes me think Landy was instructing him and coaching him to try and sound more confident, as if to show how strong he was without the Beach Boys - that in fact he was so strong without them that he could be all of them at once, in a weird way. Sometimes it worked and he actually sounded very good, but as you noted, there are a lot of very exaggerated moments as well. It makes me think of that bizarre, unnatural performance he did in 1988 of Night Time, with the leather pants and the dancing. That was so not really him, and I'm thinking the forced, exaggerated singing style might have been something pushed on him by Landy.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 14, 2020 12:43:02 GMT
the "Landy Makeover." There is a kind of assertiveness to it, like a false confidence. It makes me think Landy was instructing him and coaching him to try and sound more confident, as if to show how strong he was without the Beach Boys - that in fact he was so strong without them that he could be all of them at once, in a weird way. Sometimes it worked and he actually sounded very good, but as you noted, there are a lot of very exaggerated moments as well. It makes me think of that bizarre, unnatural performance he did in 1988 of Night Time, with the leather pants and the dancing. That was so not really him, and I'm thinking the forced, exaggerated singing style might have been something pushed on him by Landy. Exactly this. As I was reading the first paragraph quoted above I was thinking "like leather pants and awkward dancing." And a second later, I saw you beat me to it.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 14, 2020 13:33:03 GMT
Oh, I agree. I think Brian was trying to channel individual Beach Boys with his vocals, but it never quite worked. The main reason, of course, is that his voice was basically ruined in 1974-75, never quite recovered, and he couldn't duplicate other Beach Boys' voices other than the occasional bass vocal of Mike. And, that's also the main reason why I wished Brian would NOT have gone solo. He needed the Beach Boys' voices to make his songs reach their full potential, which I feel they did not.
But there was something else about Brian's "solo" vocals which was troublesome, and I often think it was related to his mental illness. When Brian did deliberately try to sing a particular part a particular way, it often sounded exaggerated. It's like if he attempted a falsetto, he didn't go there naturally like the past, it sounded forced or shrill or too falsetto-ey, and I used to wonder if he even knew how forced it sounded. If he wanted to employ a rock and roll voice, not Mike's nasal rock and roll voice, I mean a ROCK voice, that too was exaggerated and over-the-top. He was almost out of control. When Brian attempted to go "gentle", yes, he had some success and I wish he would've gone there more often. That's when he sounded most...normal.
Hmm, when you put it that way, I get where you're coming from. Though I'm wondering if it's not so much to do with his mental illness, but with the "Landy Makeover." There is a kind of assertiveness to it, like a false confidence. It makes me think Landy was instructing him and coaching him to try and sound more confident, as if to show how strong he was without the Beach Boys - that in fact he was so strong without them that he could be all of them at once, in a weird way. Sometimes it worked and he actually sounded very good, but as you noted, there are a lot of very exaggerated moments as well. It makes me think of that bizarre, unnatural performance he did in 1988 of Night Time, with the leather pants and the dancing. That was so not really him, and I'm thinking the forced, exaggerated singing style might have been something pushed on him by Landy. Yes, I think your Landy-influence analysis is spot on. And that's one of the main reasons I'm such a big fan of Joe Thomas's work with Brian. Now, granted, Brian was no longer being influenced by Landy, but Joe had a way of getting Brian to relax more vocally, for the most part sing the songs the way they SHOULD be sung, and I have to say it again, he made Brian sound more normal.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Mar 15, 2020 13:57:17 GMT
Yes, I think your Landy-influence analysis is spot on. And that's one of the main reasons I'm such a big fan of Joe Thomas's work with Brian. Now, granted, Brian was no longer being influenced by Landy, but Joe had a way of getting Brian to relax more vocally, for the most part sing the songs the way they SHOULD be sung, and I have to say it again, he made Brian sound more normal. The tone and style of his voice from Imagination onward (with a few exceptions on GIOMH) is delightful. I realize there is some pitch correction on more recent albums, but it's been tastefully applied and barely noticeable. Speaking specifically of Imagination, even though I may not love Thomas' production style on that album, he really did get lovely vocal performances out of Brian which overrules any of the production issues I have with it.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2020 14:47:49 GMT
I'd be very curious to see what Darian Sahanaja could do if he were given the tracks for Imagination to do with as he saw fit. With some better instrumental backing and some supplementing or replacing of background vocals here and there, it could be a significantly better album. It's good now, and it's not as if that kind of thing would make it a masterpiece. But it could certainly climb a notch or two without the nylon-string guitar noodling over atmospheric synth patches...
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Post by B.E. on Mar 15, 2020 16:33:50 GMT
I'd be very curious to see what Darian Sahanaja could do if he were given the tracks for Imagination to do with as he saw fit. With some better instrumental backing and some supplementing or replacing of background vocals here and there, it could be a significantly better album. It's good now, and it's not as if that kind of thing would make it a masterpiece. But it could certainly climb a notch or two without the nylon-string guitar noodling over atmospheric synth patches... I'm surprised this type of thing isn't more common. Fans are always clamoring for the removal of dated production and artists can't replicate the vocals of their younger selves, so it just seems like a natural progression. I know remix albums are a thing, but significant re-recording of backing tracks? It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me in the age of deluxe reissues which include all kinds of outtakes, alternate versions, instrumental, vocals only, remixes, etc.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2020 16:36:11 GMT
Along the same lines, you could make a 20x better GIOMH with the same concept (except replacing most of the background vocals and at least supplementing or replacing some leads).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 15, 2020 18:29:14 GMT
I don't know...I'm not really a fan of any kind of re-recording or adding/replacing parts. It's not just a purist thing, though that's a part of it. I just believe in "of the moment", the vibe (good or bad) when the song was recorded, and all of the factors that went into the recording. It's a part of history, and I just view it as trying to rewrite history. Sure, it would nice to "fix" something, and I know you're trying to make it better, make a wrong a right, maybe just...improve it. About as far as I would go is a tasteful remix, but even that's subjective.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2020 18:47:30 GMT
To be clear, I'm CURIOUS about it ... but not sure I'd support it. I'm mostly of the opinion that you are, that music is of its time and place.
There is at least one example I can think of, which is when Frank Zappa redid parts on many of his first few (mid to late 60s) albums. He used digital technology in the 80s to do it, and the response from his fans was less than positive.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 15, 2020 18:52:28 GMT
To me, it’s just another take. It’s separate from the original. Nothing is being replaced, rewritten, or even “fixed”. (If some artists go to extraordinary lengths to erase the original from existence, that’s an entirely different issue.)
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2020 18:56:13 GMT
Yes, I'd agree with that entirely. Let It Be...Naked doesn't bother me because Let It Be remains available. The Zappa stuff was different because for a time they were sold as the only CDs, under the original titles, etc. I don't want any shady stuff. But if it's marketed separately, not as a replacement, I think that would be fascinating.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 15, 2020 19:04:17 GMT
I'm confused. Didn't Kapitan suggest (wish?) Darian going into the Imagination recordings and adding (I can't think of another term) better instrumental backing and supplementing/replacing background vocals. That's pretty significant in my opinion. Isn't that fixing or replacing or even re-recording? I mean, you can keep some parts of the original song, you're not starting from scratch, but you are really making a new recording.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 15, 2020 19:07:48 GMT
I'm confused. Didn't Kapitan suggest (wish?) Darian going into the Imagination recordings and adding (I can't think of another term) better instrumental backing and supplementing/replacing background vocals. That's pretty significant in my opinion. Isn't that fixing or replacing or even re-recording? I mean, you can keep some parts of the original song, you're not starting from scratch, but you are really making a new recording.
Yes, I did, but the past few posts were just trying to clarify. I would NOT like for any such experiment to be put out as the only available version of the album, or marketed as if it were the actual album. But if it were released like "an alternate approach to..." sort of thing, that would be VERY interesting and probably better. More like a Let It Be...Naked situation (except with new recording as well as new mixing and mastering). But clearly marketed as an interesting side project.
(It would never happen, especially with Brian being alive. But it would be interesting.)
There are similar things that do happen. In the past decade or so, a lot of pop, dance, and hip hop artists put out collections of remixes of their music. (And "remix" often is too narrow a description, as they aren't just mixing what is there, but adding to it.)
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