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Post by Kapitan on Feb 14, 2020 20:30:15 GMT
SJS posting the old "Gettin' In Over My Head" got me thinking about the Paley sessions material again, and I decided it (and probably Sweet Insanity, I suppose) deserved threads alongside the released albums.
Plenty of these songs have been officially released by now, either on Brian Wilson studio albums or (as with "You're Still a Mystery" and "Some Sweet Day") on Beach Boys or Wilson archival projects. And there are boots a-plenty, so anyone can hear the music in some form or another.
I, like I think many of the Wilson fans of my generation, always had a soft spot for these songs because they represented the Great Genius Intact. See how good he could be if only he were allowed to unleash the gifts!? My god, fuck this Nashville nonsense! Make the late, great Beach Boys album whether it includes them or not!
Time has a way of working things out. I still think there was strong material here and I wish it would have been properly recorded and released, ideally as a Beach Boys album but at least as a Wilson album with a strong producer at the helm. Basically it's the kind of thing that it's half-brother, Gettin' In Over My Head, could and should have been. But now I think, well, OK ... but GIOMH failed in that effort. I think there's a good chance the other Paley material would have suffered the same, or an equally disappointing, fate.
It's funny reading the contemporaneous reviews of the music, though. They're so positive it reads more like P.R. than music journalism.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 14, 2020 23:09:04 GMT
Time has a way of working things out. I still think there was strong material here and I wish it would have been properly recorded and released, ideally as a Beach Boys album but at least as a Wilson album with a strong producer at the helm. Basically it's the kind of thing that it's half-brother, Gettin' In Over My Head, could and should have been. But now I think, well, OK ... but GIOMH failed in that effort. I think there's a good chance the other Paley material would have suffered the same, or an equally disappointing, fate.
And, I think those are the two key points or questions. The Paley Sessions sound more Beach Boyish to me than BW solo recordings. You can't help but hear those songs and imagine the individual Beach Boys' voices in certain places. But I guess it's that way with most of Brian's solo recordings. To think there was a time when the group would jump at a chance to record a batch of new Brian Wilson songs. Sadly, in this case they went with Stars & Stripes and we never got that elusive Beach Boys' album.
Of course the right producer would've been the key, too. Again, I think I would've gone with a producer to "finish" the songs and smooth out the rough edges rather than risk another Love You or dare I say, what happened down the road a bit, with Gettin' In Over My Head.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 14, 2020 23:21:14 GMT
It IS amazing to me that the Beach Boys could have heard these songs and not seen themselves in featured roles... Again, I don't think they're brilliant songs. But they are easily imagined as Beach Boys songs. Things like Some Sweet Day, My Marianne, GIOMH, and others would have worked quite well.
My speculation is that they were thinking about contemporary music, about trends, and not seeing how these generally anachronistic songs would fit into the then-modern world. I think they wouldn't have fit in ... but they might have stood out, maybe not as huge hits, groundbreaking works, but at least as substantial new work by a great band. The mid-to-late '90s were supposedly about throwing off the artifice of the '80s and getting to what really counted, getting to songs. Well, if Bob Dylan could release to great acclaim Time Out Of Mind, the Beach Boys could have released these songs.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 15, 2020 2:19:30 GMT
I had pretty much the same reaction as others when I first heard this material, but all these years later, there's only a few tunes that really stand out for me. Getting In Over My Head, Everything I Need (I much prefer the demo versions with Brian and Wendy singing to the released version), Still a Mystery, Soul Searchin'. Much of the rest is enjoyable (Saturday Morning in the City, This Song Wants to Sleep with You), and some I can't stand (Chain Reaction of Love). Still, it's weird to me that Brian was writing all these new songs, and nobody wanted them. Not Don Was. Not the Beach Boys. Not Joe Thomas. Instead, we got an album of remakes (I Just Wasn't Made For These Times), an album of Brian singing Van Dyke Parks songs (Orange Crate Art), an album of Brian 'producing' country artists singing Beach Boys classics (I wonder just how involved he was with Stars and Stripes), and finally, an album of new songs NOT written/recorded with Andy Paley (Imagination). Should I blame it on Melinda? In IJWMFTT, she talks about how how Brian is actively recording again ("let's go to Andy's!") so she doesn't seem against it in 1995. Very strange time in Brian's career.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 15, 2020 16:09:52 GMT
Still, it's weird to me that Brian was writing all these new songs, and nobody wanted them. Not Don Was. Not the Beach Boys. Not Joe Thomas. Instead, we got an album of remakes (I Just Wasn't Made For These Times), an album of Brian singing Van Dyke Parks songs (Orange Crate Art), an album of Brian 'producing' country artists singing Beach Boys classics (I wonder just how involved he was with Stars and Stripes), and finally, an album of new songs NOT written/recorded with Andy Paley (Imagination). Maybe--purely speculating, here--it was Brian who didn't want to release the songs in those situations.
The first two albums you mentioned, it's almost not fair to think about as Brian Wilson albums. IJWMFTT wasn't a burst of creativity from Brian, or even much of an effort. As I understand it, those tracks were done and arranged by Was, and Wilson's involvement was basically just singing them. It's a Was album to be a soundtrack to the Was film, not a Wilson album in any proper sense. OCA was a Van Dyke Parks album that he cajoled Wilson into singing. But again, this isn't anyone rejecting Brian's music. It just isn't intended as Brian's music.
Stars and Stripes, I can't begin to explain other than as a typically stupid Beach Boys decision.
So it isn't until '98 with Imagination that we get the opportunity for the songs to be heard. Maybe--maybe--Brian was holding them for a Beach Boys album in the way he supposedly did with some of the TWGMTR music. Another angle on it is that maybe the team overall (whether Melinda, Thomas, or others) decided that their goal of cracking into Adult Contemporary music just wasn't furthered by retro rock and roll songs like many of those Paley sessions songs, but rather the smoother music like "Dream Angel" or "South American."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 15, 2020 16:44:36 GMT
Your descriptions of I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, Orange Crate Art, and Stars & Stripes are accurate, and you have to seriously question the extent of Brian's involvement. But if you read the press releases at the time, you'd think those albums were the second coming of Pet Sounds and SMiLE - and that Brian was again...back. And as a BW fan, you WANTED to believe it!
Imagination is another album full of questions. Did Brian really want to move from Beverly Hills, California to St. Charles, Illinois? Did Brian want the album to be a Beach Boys' album? How much did Joe Thomas contribute to the songwriting and production? And, it's hard to believe but it was almost ten years between BW1988 and Imagination, ten years without an entire album of new Brian Wilson material.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 15, 2020 16:59:13 GMT
And, it's hard to believe but it was almost ten years between BW1988 and Imagination, ten years without an entire album of new Brian Wilson material. It might be hard to believe, but in hindsight, assessing his entire solo career, it ought not be. Brian Wilson's studio albums of mostly originals are:
1988 - Brian Wilson 1998 - Imagination 2004 - Gettin' In Over My Head 2008 - That Lucky Old Sun 2015 - No Pier Pressure
There was a lot of product in those years, but very little actually new product. (And that isn't getting in to how many of those "new" songs were old, but mostly previously unreleased. I have no objections to his use of them, but there were plenty of leftovers in those albums.)
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Post by B.E. on Feb 15, 2020 17:16:19 GMT
As we can all imagine, Brian's life, and by extension his career, was in a state of turmoil during this era. From his Landy-directed solo career and failure of Sweet Insanity to working with Was and VDP, and then to have his Paley material rejected by the Beach Boys, he must have felt lost, musically. I also think transitioning out of the Landy era must have been very, very difficult. His long-term health and well-being seem to have been of very little concern to Landy. Brian was understandably a mess. Why do I bring all this up? Well, to explain why I don't think Brian wanted Imagination to be a Beach Boys album. I think Brian was open to working with the Beach Boys in the early and mid '90s, but after nothing coming of it, and then Carl's illness, I just think Brian was finally ready to get his career back on track. Joe Thomas offered that in a way that the Beach Boys seemed unable to. Then, after Carl's death, I doubt Brian had any immediate interest in the Beach Boys whatsoever. It would have been too painful.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 15, 2020 20:36:47 GMT
As we can all imagine, Brian's life, and by extension his career, was in a state of turmoil during this era. From his Landy-directed solo career and failure of Sweet Insanity to working with Was and VDP, and then to have his Paley material rejected by the Beach Boys, he must have felt lost, musically. I also think transitioning out of the Landy era must have been very, very difficult. His long-term health and well-being seem to have been of very little concern to Landy. Brian was understandably a mess. Why do I bring all this up? Well, to explain why I don't think Brian wanted Imagination to be a Beach Boys album. I think Brian was open to working with the Beach Boys in the early and mid '90s, but after nothing coming of it, and then Carl's illness, I just think Brian was finally ready to get his career back on track. Joe Thomas offered that in a way that the Beach Boys seemed unable to. Then, after Carl's death, I doubt Brian had any immediate interest in the Beach Boys whatsoever. It would have been too painful. Exactly. What would be the point of recording a new 'Beach Boys' album AFTER Carl died? Of course, everyone would feel differently about that many years later, but in 1998, I don't think it was the proper thing to do.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 15, 2020 20:43:04 GMT
But Imagination wouldn't have been conceived and recorded in the wake of Carl's death. Carl died in February 1998; Imagination was released in June of that year. Odds are, it was done (or mostly done) before Carl died. And from what I understand, Carl's ultimate future wasn't really certain until he died.
Point being, Brian Wilson probably wasn't making Imagination as a solo album because he couldn't imagine being part of a post-Carl Beach Boys. Because when he was making it, Carl was alive.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 15, 2020 21:02:42 GMT
I don't think it's clear-cut either way. I think Brian knew of Carl's diagnosis and witnessed his deteriorating health, to the point that he was unable to continue touring, all prior to recording Imagination. Though, I don't know the exact session dates. Regardless, it's just a factor, though one that would make it far more likely that Brian's next album would be a solo album and not a Beach Boys album. Also, consider how many false starts Brian had had by that point. Until it's released, that material may very well have been scrapped or repurposed. After Carl's death, the chance of that album becoming a Beach Boys album all but disappeared. That said, I just don't think THE BEACH BOYS were up for it (and they hadn't been for years). At that point, it doesn't really matter what Brian wanted. If he wanted a career, he had to look elsewhere.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 15, 2020 22:35:19 GMT
I'm not a fan of "Marketplace" and I think "It's Not Easy Being Me" is overrated.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
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Post by bellbottoms on Feb 16, 2020 13:52:24 GMT
I'm not a fan of "Marketplace" and I think "It's Not Easy Being Me" is overrated. Taking It's Not Easy Being Me at face value, I totally agree. But it's one of the few songs from this period that I can imagine differently - it had the potential to be something really special but never made it there. However, I think This Song Wants To Sleep With You Tonight is truly overrated - even imagining better vocals, I don't really get the hoo-ha about This Song. It's okay. I'm probably one of the few who isn't really that captivated by the mystique of this period. I get it, to a degree... to some extent all of Brian's unreleased material and the narrative around it is compelling. But upon listening to the songs from Paley period I found it far more underwhelming than the talk about it suggested I should be. The best material from those years did make it out to official release, and I'm glad about that.
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Post by jk on Feb 17, 2020 21:13:59 GMT
My favourites from the Paley sessions? "I'm Broke", "Elbow' 63", the gorgeous "In My Moondreams" and "Chain Reaction Of Love".
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 17, 2020 21:55:17 GMT
I was just listening to “Chain Reaction of Love” again the other day after lonelysummer posted he couldn’t stand it. I didn’t remember thinking it was that bad … but upon further reflection, I’m with him. Of course, we need to leave leeway in that it’s not meant as a finished studio recording; as with all of these, it’s a robust demo. But it’s probably twice as long as it ought to be, in my book, and that duration is mostly just repetition. I’ve also always felt that its sections are a bit too stop-start for me, they don’t flow together well at all. (I do like some of those actual sections, though.) Trim two minutes off it, get some better vocals, and add some nice transitions, and I’m on board! (There you go, Brian, free advice from an amateur. You’re welcome!)
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