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Post by Kapitan on Jul 28, 2019 13:38:05 GMT
I can't move posts and am not messing with all discussion so far, but for posterity and maybe to spur on discussion here in the relevant section, here are the lists posted thus far. These were initially posted in the "Top 10s" thread in the General Music discussion.
Having been brought up a couple times, let's emphasize we aren't saying we don't like these things, but rather that we feel they're overrated in the BBs universe.
SJS 01 Bambu 02 "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" 03 That Lucky Old Sun 04 the early version of "Big Sur" 05 the In Concert version of "Marcella" 06 Matt Jardine's recent live vocals 07 "Funky Pretty" 08 The Beach Boys' Christmas Album 09 Wild Honey 10 Love And Mercy (the movie)
Kapitan 1. Dennis Wilson's music in general 2. The idea of Brian as psychedelic or avant garde 3. Al's current voice. (It's still VERY GOOD for someone his age but when people try to insist it's literally as good as ever, that's just nonsense.) 4. Smiley Smile 5. The caricatures of the boys' personalities, especially as used to "explain" (i.e., "make shit up") episodes in their past. 6. Quotes from docs, especially when used by fans to "explain"... 7. Blondie's guitar work 8. Love You (which I love, but seriously) 9. Magic of family. (How everything is/would be better with more family members involved, as if it were an absolute monarchy in which familial lines mattered so much. It's mostly nostalgia, people!) 10. Today Side Two.
KDS 1. The Anti Mike Love Narrative 2. Love You 3. Pacific Ocean Blue 4. Smile 5. Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin 6. Smiley Smile 7. The Paley Sessions 8. A Day in the Life of a Tree 9. Cool Cool Water 10. Love and Mercy (song)
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Post by kds on Jul 28, 2019 13:50:11 GMT
An honorable mention for my list:
The quality of Brian Wilson concerts vs Mike and Bruce shows.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 28, 2019 13:55:21 GMT
That's one I think was a totally legitimate conversation at one point. But the truth is, once Brian's band really got out there and it was so, so obviously great, Mike's band improved quite a bit. Plus the set lists began to even out as well: Brian's stopped doing as many deeper cuts and more hits; Mike's began introducing more deeper cuts. For years now, I would say they are both high quality bands (whose weak spots are their primary lead singers, who just so happen to be the guys who can't very well be replaced, being the principals of the Beach Boys).
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Post by kds on Jul 28, 2019 13:58:46 GMT
That's one I think was a totally legitimate conversation at one point. But the truth is, once Brian's band really got out there and it was so, so obviously great, Mike's band improved quite a bit. Plus the set lists began to even out as well: Brian's stopped doing as many deeper cuts and more hits; Mike's began introducing more deeper cuts. For years now, I would say they are both high quality bands (whose weak spots are their primary lead singers, who just so happen to be the guys who can't very well be replaced, being the principals of the Beach Boys). I agree, and I've no doubt there was a time when a BW show was much better. But, in the post C50 world, that's no longer the case.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 28, 2019 16:38:53 GMT
It occurred to me that I should have posted my thoughts on this here. I deleted my post in the "Top 10" General Music thread. I don't think Brian and the boys ever surpassed Side 2 of Today! They may have matched it with Pet Sounds and Smile (if you're so inclined), but is there a greater four song stretch (PLMW-SKMTW) in their entire discography? Not for my money. Personally, I'd even say the same for the five song stretch (PLMW-ITBOMM), but I understand opinions differ. So, anyone willing to take the challenge? Let me see that 4-5 song stretch that surpasses Side 2 of Today!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 28, 2019 18:51:01 GMT
That's one I think was a totally legitimate conversation at one point. But the truth is, once Brian's band really got out there and it was so, so obviously great, Mike's band improved quite a bit. Plus the set lists began to even out as well: Brian's stopped doing as many deeper cuts and more hits; Mike's began introducing more deeper cuts. For years now, I would say they are both high quality bands (whose weak spots are their primary lead singers, who just so happen to be the guys who can't very well be replaced, being the principals of the Beach Boys). I agree, and I've no doubt there was a time when a BW show was much better. But, in the post C50 world, that's no longer the case. Personally, I don't think Brian's show was ever MUCH better. First, I think it was more of a novelty with Brian actually doing shows and...actively participating in them. Things kind of "evened up" once that novelty wore off over the years. Also, and I'm not saying this is/was overrated, but Brian's band was getting a lot of praise and overshadowing Mike & Bruce's band. I didn't think that was fair. I always thought it wasn't a matter of talent, not even a matter of setlists, but a matter of numbers. Brian had MORE instruments in his band, but the band wasn't necessarily better. It was more an apples and oranges thing, both bands were going for a different sound, different arrangements.
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Post by kds on Jul 28, 2019 19:08:49 GMT
Speaking of numbers, I find it interesting that every post C50 Brian show has featured two other Beach Boys (Al & David then Al & Blondie). Feels like an effort to push "authenticity" as the novelty of Brian touring has faded.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 28, 2019 19:29:44 GMT
Speaking of numbers, I find it interesting that every post C50 Brian show has featured two other Beach Boys (Al & David then Al & Blondie). Feels like an effort to push "authenticity" as the novelty of Brian touring has faded. Yes, it was that, and I thought it was also a direct message to Mike. So, you think you're THE Beach Boys? Well, take this! We win 3-2. Now, these days, it's necessary for Brian to get through a show, unless he wants to delegate vocals to regular people.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 28, 2019 20:57:18 GMT
It occurred to me that I should have posted my thoughts on this here. I deleted my post in the "Top 10" General Music thread. I don't think Brian and the boys ever surpassed Side 2 of Today! They may have matched it with Pet Sounds and Smile (if you're so inclined), but is there a greater four song stretch (PLMW-SKMTW) in their entire discography? Not for my money. Personally, I'd even say the same for the five song stretch (PLMW-ITBOMM), but I understand opinions differ. So, anyone willing to take the challenge? Let me see that 4-5 song stretch that surpasses Side 2 of Today! Dangit, I began doing this and accidentally closed (and lost) it. Rather than retype, I'll just say my answer would annoy you because to me it's not actually that hard to do. Starting with All Summer Long and going through Love You, I have most albums with at least one 4-song stretch better than any 4-song stretch on side two (including the first four songs of side one of the same album). I just don't like I'm So Young or In the Back of My Mind so for me it's easy to do.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 28, 2019 21:34:44 GMT
Kapitan That makes sense. "I'm So Young" is the sticking point. For me, nothing pre- All Summer Long or post- Pet Sounds comes close. The ones that give me pause are "I Get Around" - "We'll Run Away", "Help Me Rhonda" - "You're So Good To Me", "Wouldn't It Be Nice" - "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)", and "Sloop John B" - "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times".
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2019 3:36:17 GMT
Speaking of numbers, I find it interesting that every post C50 Brian show has featured two other Beach Boys (Al & David then Al & Blondie). Feels like an effort to push "authenticity" as the novelty of Brian touring has faded. Yes, it was that, and I thought it was also a direct message to Mike. So, you think you're THE Beach Boys? Well, take this! We win 3-2. Now, these days, it's necessary for Brian to get through a show, unless he wants to delegate vocals to regular people. I think it also helps the "Mike ended C50" narrative.
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