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Post by B.E. on Sept 9, 2021 23:22:15 GMT
Technically, I'm closer to the G&O party than the center, but your point stands: if you drew a "centrist" circle, I'd be in it (and you and carlove, too, and I bet KDS and SJS and others who from time to time engage in discussions here).
I haven't really read the article but the graph appears to be from the pure progressive point of view. Situated all the way in the corner with the arrows and descriptions flowing from it. I find it interesting how few people identify with the the upper left and lower right quadrants (of the 5,000 shown). I mean, it makes sense considering our two party system, but it's pretty sad how between the two quadrants there's only one party representing them.
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Post by carllove on Sept 10, 2021 2:05:36 GMT
Do read the article and look at the list of Political Pundits surveyed and you will find your answer. I do applaud the Democracy Project for trying to find a “Party” that more aligns with the beliefs of the general populace, but how many pundits are truly “middle of the road”? Its just doesn’t bring out the voices or fevorance, when the viewpoint is more in the middle. Our voices are not the loudest. Sometimes, we don’t even know where we stand.
Abortion is one of those issues for me. I just don’t know what is right there.
I used to feel like the problems in the African American communities were all of their own doing, but the more I have researched into the restoration and the aftermath and backlash in the south, and the results of the “War on Poverty”, the more I think that there is a reason for the resentment and distrust of authority in those communities.
The fact is, there are no easy answers for the problems of the day, yet most pundits proselytize their simple solutions, avoiding the actual answers, which are much more difficult. So what we end up with is wild policy swings, each a backlash to the previous extreme
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Post by carllove on Sept 10, 2021 2:27:03 GMT
The funny thing is, I listen to Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin almost everyday, so you would think I would have surveyed further up of center and more to the right, but there are times I have to shut them off because they make me so angry. This was one of those weeks. I am not quite as conservative as I think I am, evidently. Like I have said before, I am more libertarian. I just wish government would provide basic services, and stay out of my business. I don’t see where that fits in this graph at all.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 10, 2021 2:50:12 GMT
I never listened to him daily, but I used to semi-regularly listen to Ben Shapiro until I felt like he started to cater too much to Trump’s Republican Party. He had been a never-Trumper, he didn’t vote for him in 2016. To succeed in conservative radio, though, I guess he had to change his tune (and not just in regard to Trump - who I felt he used to hold accountable). That said, I recognize I’m no expert on his show. I also never cared for all the railing against “the left” or “liberals” as if they were all the same. When I hear that from radio hosts, I hear bias first and foremost (whether that’s fair or not). Though, I also recognize the need to use labels in order to not bog down a discussion. I don’t know, I just got the sense that he drifted too far right (or up, actually). I suppose it’s worth pointing out that we never really saw eye-to-eye, anyway (he doesn’t have much respect for libertarian thought, IIRC).
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 10, 2021 12:04:43 GMT
I've never been politically aligned with Ben Shapiro on much of anything (though occasionally we overlap), but I did listen to him more than occasionally back around 2016-18 or so--mostly just because I don't think it's fair to only listen to the people you agree with, and I appreciated his willingness to seemingly be an independent conservative, not just toe the party line.
Like I think B.E. is saying, it did seem like he changed his style and content to some degree during the Trump administration: I found him increasingly unfair in his criticisms of Democrats and a little unrealistic in his apologetics for Republicans and Trump, especially once we got into the impeachments and the '20 campaign. It made him feel just that much more like any other talking head trying to rile up his team for ratings. I always found him more interesting in conversations with moderates or liberals than with other conservatives or just doing his own monologues.
It really is a shame that the world rewards being a black-and-white, good-versus-evil, about-to-blow-your-top commentator over a little more calm, reason, moderation.
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Post by carllove on Sept 11, 2021 20:01:55 GMT
I like Shapiro because a lot of his arguments sound so intelligent, but lately I think he has been catering to a wing of the Republican Party that makes me cringe. The celebration over the Texas abortion decision made me turn him off. Thankfully it gave me more time to stream Feel Flows.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 14, 2021 10:56:59 GMT
Today my mail included the first of what I suspect will be A LOT of political marketing about the "defund the police" city charter amendment that's to be on the ballot. I thought it might be interesting to keep and track them: which side is doing the most marketing, what their messaging is, etc. Updated tally.
I now have four pieces of mail (all slick, full color brochures, each different and in three different sizes) and one door-knocker (despite my no-soliciting sign) from the group campaigning against the "defund the police" Question 2 amendment.
Yesterday evening I got my first effort from the "yes" side, an unsolicited text message. I was a little edgy after a long day of work, so I replied to their "Do you plan to vote yes...?" text with a paragraph of why I plan to vote no, a paragraph of how I wish activists and politicians would campaign against unsolicited commercial marketing such as this, and a request that they remove me from any list and not contact me again.
The person contacted me again, texting two paragraphs she thought rebutted my reasons for opposing the amendment! I was really annoyed then, because it is illegal to continue contacting someone in that situation. I reined in my annoyance and just replied again that a) I'd already asked not to be contacted again, and b) reiterating that request. I know I shouldn't have bothered with the initial response (other than saying not to contact me again), and so I get why that reply would goad her into a rebuttal. But even so, I thought it was a little surprising and unprofessional.
I really do hate political marketing (which is how I think of canvassing and outreach both by politicians and activists: as marketing). As I noted above, I also recently had a door-knocker ignoring my no solicitation sign to try to talk to me about the issue. He was on my side, but I still turned him away somewhat curtly, pointing out the sign. So annoying. They are no better than robo-callers, in my opinion. In fact, they are roughly identical, if not slightly worse in that by presenting themselves as actual humans, they somewhat force you into at least listening for a moment (or being rude).
Anyway, overall count of contact on the issue: Vote No - 5; Vote Yes - 1.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 19, 2021 12:05:27 GMT
Sorry, I know this is my hobby horse lately ... just under two months to go, then I'll stop.
The Star Tribune released the results of a new poll related to policing in Minneapolis, and those results are maddening: 55% of respondents (including 75% of black voters) oppose reducing the size of the police department, and those same percentages, 55% overall and 75% of black voters, favor current Police Chief Arradondo.
Yet 49% of respondents overall favor the new charter amendment that would eliminate the police department, fire Chief Arradondo, remove the minimum number of police officers required by the city charter, and replace it with ... something TBD, under the control of a city council that has made clear it wants somewhere between no and fewer officers. (41% oppose, 10% undecided.)
That tells me there are going to be quite a few people who, if the amendment passes, are going to be pretty upset when they realize they just voted against their own wishes. And it is mostly young, white people favoring what they see as this racially progressive idea, contrary to the opinions of the black people who live here.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 19, 2021 13:14:19 GMT
That is certainly maddening. Something ain't adding up...
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 18, 2021 12:28:47 GMT
Former Sec. of State Colin Powell passed away from complications of COVID at age 84. (He was fully vaccinated.)
I think he might have been the most respected man in America for a time in the mid-90s. I always thought he would have won the 1996 presidency (and quite possibly the 2000 one) had he run, regardless of party. He was very much in that establishment mold, hence his aversion to the Republican party as it shifted ideologically in the 2000s (and its to him), culminating in him voting for Pres. Obama.
Unfortunately he may be remembered most for his blunder in propagating either an error or a lie to the UN about WMD in Iraq, leading to that 2003 war.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 2, 2021 12:15:56 GMT
Today is election day. It's not a big one in much of the country as neither presidential nor federal congressional offices are on the ballot, but in Minnesota we've got some big ones, including the election for mayor, city council, and ballot initiatives for:
- Changing the Minneapolis division of power from a weak mayor to a stronger mayor system.
- Changing the city charter to eliminate the requirement of a certain number of police based on the population, with the objective being dissolving the police department and replacing it with a public safety department TBD. - Establishing a rent control policy, with controls being under the jurisdiction of city council
The mayoral race in particular is interesting, as we have basically a choice between what five years ago would have been considered progressives on the right and far left progressives on the left. (There are no conservatives who are viable candidates, which is not such a big deal for me, in that I'm not one and would be pretty unlikely to vote for one.)
Current mayor Jacob Frey is what I'd call an "Obama Democrat," which might sound like one thing to Republicans, but it means he's on the right in this race. One of the other five main candidates is relatively similar to him politically. The other three leading candidates are all to the left, with two of them well to the left.
I suspect one of the far-left candidates will win the mayor's office. I also think the rent control question will pass. The other two, I'm just not sure. If I had to put money on it, I'd guess the questions will go no, yes, yes. Second option is yes, yes, yes. I'm voting yes, no, no.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2021 12:19:08 GMT
I am more or less relieved at the election results. The charter amendment that concerned me most--question 2, about replacing the MPD with TBD--failed, with about 56% of residents opposing it.
Beyond that, the "strong mayor" question passed, which I favored.
The rent control question also passed with just over 53% in favor. While I voted against it, I'm not as bothered by it. In fact, I am very sympathetic to the issue itself. I voted against it because it wasn't an actual policy, but the granting of power to the city council to impose policy on the issue. And what's more, based on what I've read on the issue, rent control policies tend to be counterproductive, eliminating the availability and quality of affordable housing. So now I hope the council acts wisely with its new power (though doubt it will).
While they are still tallying subsequent rounds of voting--we have ranked choice locally, so it can take a while--it appears Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey will win. While he was not my first choice, he was my second. It's fine. He's mediocre, but fine: at least he wasn't backing the measures I seriously opposed.
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Post by B.E. on Nov 15, 2021 0:22:54 GMT
Very similar to things we've posted before, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It's a very quick quiz. And it allows you to look at your answers as compared to all nine groups, which is pretty cool. I landed on "Ambivalent Right". Not too surprised at that. www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Nov 15, 2021 3:48:15 GMT
Funny, I got the same thing. I think just about every one of those types of quizzes I fall somewhere around the middle, although usually on the left.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2021 12:37:08 GMT
I also ended up in "Ambivalent Right," which surprises me a little in that I don't think I've ever been found on the right on any of these. But as I was going through it, I was thinking "I know what you're probably getting at, but I don't think this question is phrased well for it..." I suspect that more, or more nuanced questions would have landed me nearer my typical center-left ballpark.
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