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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 18:18:48 GMT
Much like the political leanings of artists like, maybe The Beach Boys, I really don't care about a company's social, political, or either policies, so I'm more in line with A, with a dash of B because I don't always believe them.
Take the NBA for example. I 125% believe their putting "Black Lives Matter" on the courts and uniforms was pandering. Especially since they've announced that next season won't feature BLM on courts and uniforms, a decision they made primarily because ratings dropped (to be fair, it's up for debate whether or not that affected the ratings, but ratings were down).
Walmart? Yeah, they pay their employees a barely living wage and offer little to nothing in the way of benefits. But, I also have a family of my own, and the cost of living is quite high at times, so I go to Walmart at least 2-3 times a month for household items and food.
These are businesses whose main goal is to make money, not to be our friend, not to align with our values, or make us feel warm and fuzzy inside. They provide a service. Nothing more or less.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Oct 21, 2020 18:21:45 GMT
When all of those emails were coming in saying how much Brand X cares about my well being, they all went straight to the deleted folder after the first one or two. I'm in a car group, so one that comes to mind is Chevrolet. No, coming into the dealer for whatever isn't going to make me feel better about anything, nor do I need your help with anything else. I think that stuff has a neutral effect at best, and I almost feel as if it proves just how much they *don't* care. I think there can be exceptions politically, but you're often alienating some group no matter what you do. One example is NASCAR. One of the drivers was suspended for saying the n word during an online race. You had a ton of people suddenly claiming they were interested in NASCAR, while others said they would never watch again. TV ratings mostly stayed the same. It was just announced that he would be reinstated on January 1st, now there are people claiming they would never watch again for that reason, while others say he never should have been suspended to begin with. I suspect TV ratings won't be affected.
I think the relationship thing kind of goes along with how my generation is more interested in experiences than material goods. I've definitely noticed people my age like to travel much more than older generations do/did. Ditto with going out for food/drinks. So a little more effort has to be put it to get us to buy something. I find this applies more to luxury goods than anything else, though. You see it also with how many downtowns have been revitalized in the past decade or so. People want the experience of going or even living downtown rather than the same chain restaurant or neighborhood bar 5 minutes from your house. So there's my two cents.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 18:35:22 GMT
I think the relationship thing kind of goes along with how my generation is more interested in experiences than material goods. I've definitely noticed people my age like to travel much more than older generations do/did. Ditto with going out for food/drinks. So a little more effort has to be put it to get us to buy something. I find this applies more to luxury goods than anything else, though. You see it also with how many downtowns have been revitalized in the past decade or so. People want the experience of going or even living downtown rather than the same chain restaurant or neighborhood bar 5 minutes from your house. So there's my two cents. Want to know a dirty little secret? That is USUALLY the case with twenty-somethings! It's one of those things like how younger generations tend to be more liberal than older ones. It's true in part because they're young, and they often age out of it. Material things usually mean less when you haven't got many and have a youthful zest for life. They mean more when you have a family, kids, etc.
Travel is a really interesting example, because it seems to have made a big "U" shape: it seems to have been more common in the later 60s and 70s, when the dollar had a ton of buying power overseas; fell somewhat for a while as that changed; and went back up as international travel actually became cheaper, not due to the dollar but just changes in air travel (far more expensive before deregulation).
But the latter part of what I quoted, I do think that's a whole different story. I think that is a new thing that fits with the "authenticity" idea we've discussed in music. People (of all age groups) are definitely more interested in local products, one-of-a-kind restaurants, as opposed to staying at a Holiday Inn and eating at a TGIFriday's. (The funny thing is, chains grew to smooth out uneven experiences: people wanted to know there was a certain baseline standard as opposed to finding out that Pop's Diner in Des Moines was likely to send you to the hospital.)
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 18:48:25 GMT
I think I should clarify (at least) one thing: there IS a line to be drawn somewhere. I would absolutely boycott some companies over some things. So I'm not saying ethics have zero place in commercial life.
It's more that I don't consider Nike my soulmate, or a knight (no pun intended to Phil!) in shining armor. In fact, since they have long-since been running near-slave labor sweatshops overseas...
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Post by B.E. on Oct 21, 2020 18:56:37 GMT
This is tougher to answer than it looks! Basically, I don't care. I'm 95% about the product/service and its cost. That said, all things being equal, other factors may come into play. More so ethical than political. Think - business practices, for example. Also, isn't it a popular sentiment to 'buy local'? That's down to certain values outside of the strict product/service and cost. And, loyalty is just so ingrained in us. Brand loyalty, by extension. So, relationships are a factor, but it's almost subconscious or just habit. As for the generational aspect, there's something to what's said, particularly regarding social/political issues, but I'm also not so sure things are all that different from the past. Maybe it just used to be more subtle? I don't know. These are my scattered thoughts. I do think people care more about working for a business that aligns with their interests/values than buying from such businesses. Obviously, one is more intimate, and tied to happiness and self-worth, than the other.
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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 19:04:21 GMT
So, relationships are a factor, but it's almost subconscious or just habit. As for the generational aspect, there's something to what's said, particularly regarding social/political issues, but I'm also not so sure things are all that different from the past. Maybe it just used to be more subtle? I think in the pre social media days, it was far more subtle. For example, many big corporations will typically do some sort of post in support of Pride Month in June. And if you really want to see the ugly side of humanity, check out the comments sections of those posts.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 19:38:24 GMT
I think there could be a few things at play here.
1. Marketing has advanced. It was really only invented as a concept with WWI era propaganda. (Yes, there was advertising and marketing before that, but it was nothing remotely scientific, nothing really taken seriously.) That's when the saying "I waste half the money I spend on advertising; I just don't know which half" came around, but that same sentiment was in effect for decades. But especially since the internet era, calculating actual results has become a lot easier (as have the behavioral sciences that drive the propaganda--er, sorry, marketing).
2. Speculative, but maybe especially for companies we work for, things really have changed culturally to a great extent. People probably do want or expect more from the companies they work for. I think that during the 20th century the idea of just having a stable job with a good salary and benefits/pension was still seen as something of a miracle. It wasn't long before that (e.g. 1900ish) that most people lived in the country, worked on farms, and had no financial security whatsoever in their lives. So to expect an employer to do MORE? To expect an employer to also promote your personal causes? I just doubt it was on the table as much. But knowing that has probably changed, while I don't think companies themselves actually ARE better for society, I think they realize their employees expect it of them and make big overtures about that. But...
3. ...they do so cynically. It's cheaper to post BLM on your social media, to have diversity and inclusion workshops in the office, or to talk about the new green initiative than it is to actually pay employees a higher wage and better benefits with which they could actually do the advancing (personal and societal) themselves. It's cheaper and it looks good as marketing to the public, even if it is "for" your employees.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Oct 21, 2020 20:02:24 GMT
Well said (as usual).
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 20:15:39 GMT
Very kind of you.
I'm hoping a few of our older members have thoughts on this, too. I think B.E. and I are roughly the same age, with KDS maybe between 5-10 years behind, and then obviously you (TCK) are a bit younger yet. But I'd be curious what the over-50 set thinks about these topics, too (as well as anyone else, for that matter).
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Post by B.E. on Oct 21, 2020 20:23:42 GMT
I'm hoping a few of our older members have thoughts on this, too. I think B.E. and I are roughly the same age, with KDS maybe between 5-10 years behind, and then obviously you (TCK) are a bit younger yet.
I'm actually between TCK and KDS: I'm 32.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 20:40:15 GMT
I'm hoping a few of our older members have thoughts on this, too. I think B.E. and I are roughly the same age, with KDS maybe between 5-10 years behind, and then obviously you (TCK) are a bit younger yet.
I'm actually between TCK and KDS: I'm 32. Sorry about that! Didn't mean to lump you in with my cranky old generation! No offense intended.
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Post by kds on Oct 22, 2020 12:13:29 GMT
I've recently turned 40, so I'm finally at the age where I'm supposed to hate modern music (only problem is I've hated most modern music since I was a teenager).
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2020 12:18:46 GMT
Welcome to middle age! As for early grumpiness about modern music, I know the feeling: I was never so dismissive of modern music as I was from roughly ages 17-27. I actually like it more now than I did then.
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Post by kds on Oct 22, 2020 12:26:03 GMT
Mine probably peaked around 18-19, which was the very late 90s which was when bubble gum pop made a comeback, and rock was in the midst of it's worst ever movement - rap/metal.
I think the rock landscape is slightly better now than in the late 90s. In the late 90s even great bands were releasing shitty music (ie. Van Halen 3). At least the 2000s and 2010s saw a lot legacy acts actually start being themselves again. But, at the end of the day, there's still very little in way of new bands.
And pop music is complete trash now.
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Post by jk on Dec 18, 2020 0:03:13 GMT
Couple of random thoughts from jk.
The first is that one of our inbuilt lamps has been smelling a wee bit smoky -- something to do with the wiring. We turned it off sharpish and the wall switch soon cooled off but now at 12.30 at night, that smoky smell is back. Of course it might just be the accumulation of smoke from the loose or crossed wires when the lamp was on (for a short time in the early evening). What it boils down to, is that it's not alarming enough to call anyone but alarming enough to prevent me being able to relax and go to bed! So I'm doing odd stuff at the computer and nipping down regularly to check there are no new developments...
The other random thought concerns something that happened to me at EH. This poster has been giving me some support at a couple of my (let's say) specialized threads. Although I'd thanked them on-forum, something induced me to message them with some thoughts I'd been having. It wasn't anything particularly outrageous but later it struck me that I was treating a complete stranger as if they were a long-time friend I could say anything to. At all events, my message went unanswered. I waited a day and then sent them a slightly over-the-top apology, which may have only made matters worse. They're still around, which is a relief. Whether they'll get back to me at those topics remains to be seen. Oh the perils and pitfalls of the internet!!
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