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Post by kds on Jul 9, 2020 12:14:33 GMT
Yeah, I get the argument/complaint. In the end--and believe me, considering I relate to the argument a lot, it is no criticism of you whatsoever--I just don't think it matters. You're one person, I'm one person. Most people (obviously) want the hits, as many as possible.
It would be weird to go through that artistic mid-life crisis and later admission of artistic senior citizenship. I know we have a thread dedicated to that somewhere. But the popular bands all eventually face those questions: keep doing what you're doing, reinvent yourself, follow your muse, follow the trends, follow the fans?
These are their decisions to make. They have their own motivations. (Why are you in it: to perform, to record, to create, to please yourself, to please others, to get rich[er], to spread some message, to collaborate?)
The long Old Timers Game? Nothing new about that. Some of those artists draw decent crowds at casinos and fairs, a few sell out stadiums.
I know I've referenced them a million times about it, but Prince and David Bowie were two artists who clearly struggled with this, especially in the '90s and early '00s. Both said at some point or another they were done playing certain old songs or albums. You can go any number of ways ... but those who can sell more tickets, usually do what it takes to sell more tickets. The Stones and McCartney are probably the most obvious examples.
Why does McCartney keep doing new albums? Who knows? Maybe because he thinks it's fun and he can do whatever he wants because he's filthy rich (thanks in part to touring on one of the greatest catalogues in history). Pretty good problem to have.
Guys like McCartney keep doing new music because it's all they know. And, I'm sure in the back of his mind, he's probably a little frustrated that the concert audiences by and large would much rather hear songs that are 40-50 or more years old than his new creations. But, he also knows that he can't charge what he charges for a show and fill his setlist with material from the 90s and 00s. I think Iron Maiden does a great job at balancing this. Since the early 00s, they've done alternating tours. They'll do a nostalgia themed tour, then do a tour to promote a new album with a setlist that's heavy on recent material. But, Iron Maiden also charges a lot less for a ticket than Sir Paul.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 9, 2020 12:46:14 GMT
Honestly the most realistic way to get legends to perform new music in concert is for sufficient numbers of people to buy and call for the performance of that new music. It really is just about that easy.
The metal/rock radio host Eddie Trunk is right when he talks about this. If you want something to happen in a market economy, you demonstrate demand. If sufficient numbers of people do the same, it works. No artist in his right mind--unless he's just a Dylanesque contrarian--would ignore that opportunity. But if insufficient numbers of people buy it or otherwise make known they want it, it's unlikely to happen.
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Post by kds on Jul 9, 2020 13:02:14 GMT
Honestly the most realistic way to get legends to perform new music in concert is for sufficient numbers of people to buy and call for the performance of that new music. It really is just about that easy.
The metal/rock radio host Eddie Trunk is right when he talks about this. If you want something to happen in a market economy, you demonstrate demand. If sufficient numbers of people do the same, it works. No artist in his right mind--unless he's just a Dylanesque contrarian--would ignore that opportunity. But if insufficient numbers of people buy it or otherwise make known they want it, it's unlikely to happen.
That's true. And I doubt there are many fans buying tickets for Paul shows who are itching to hear material from Driving Rain again. Paul's pretty unique since Beatles deep tracks are as well known as many bands' hits, so he can play around with his setlists a little more.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 9, 2020 14:34:28 GMT
Guys like McCartney keep doing new music because it's all they know. And, I'm sure in the back of his mind, he's probably a little frustrated that the concert audiences by and large would much rather hear songs that are 40-50 or more years old than his new creations. But, he also knows that he can't charge what he charges for a show and fill his setlist with material from the 90s and 00s. That's a good way to put it. I think it's easy to overstate these frustrations or the boredom of performing the same songs night after night. Besides, Paul doesn't tour that much. According to wiki, he's averaged just shy of 23 concerts per year over the last 20 years. Again, I think he recognizes songs like "Fuh You" aren't about to replace "Helter Skelter" as a crowd favorite, and he's fine with that (i.e. it doesn't keep him from creating 'Fuh You' nor appreciating "Helter Skelter"). He's still got an audience thousands strong excited for every new song he releases ( Egypt Station went #1 after all). I'm sure gratitude and pride are in the forefront - not frustration. Both in regard to his studio and live audiences.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 9, 2020 14:37:34 GMT
That's true. And I doubt there are many fans buying tickets for Paul shows who are itching to hear material from Driving Rain again. Driving Rain or Thriving Pain? (Sorry, but a popular Beatles YouTuber refers to it that way and it just cracks me up. Carry on.)
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Post by kds on Jul 9, 2020 14:47:05 GMT
That's true. And I doubt there are many fans buying tickets for Paul shows who are itching to hear material from Driving Rain again. Driving Rain or Thriving Pain? (Sorry, but a popular Beatles YouTuber refers to it that way and it just cracks me up. Carry on.) that's pretty funny. There's a solid EP somewhere in Driving Rain.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 9, 2020 18:58:47 GMT
I hadn't listened to this album (Driving Rain) in so, so long, I honestly didn't have an idea what any of the songs sounded like except for "Freedom," which I hated then and hate now. My total lack of recollection should have been a sign, but alas ... so as you guys put it down, I put it on to argue with you that it isn't so bad.
But it is. Not bad like out of tune or sloppy, etc. Bad like just boring. Unnecessary. Entirely unmemorable (as my total lack of memory of it, despite owning it and having listened at least a few dozen times when it first came out, demonstrates). I'm on "Spinning On An Axis" at the moment, so just over halfway through, and I can hardly remember the first eight songs (which I've just heard...).
I'm going to finish it. But I'm questioning KDS's confidence over being able to make a good EP out of it. Tolerable EP, I'd agree.
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Post by kds on Jul 9, 2020 19:18:27 GMT
I hadn't listened to this album (Driving Rain) in so, so long, I honestly didn't have an idea what any of the songs sounded like except for "Freedom," which I hated then and hate now. My total lack of recollection should have been a sign, but alas ... so as you guys put it down, I put it on to argue with you that it isn't so bad.
But it is. Not bad like out of tune or sloppy, etc. Bad like just boring. Unnecessary. Entirely unmemorable (as my total lack of memory of it, despite owning it and having listened at least a few dozen times when it first came out, demonstrates). I'm on "Spinning On An Axis" at the moment, so just over halfway through, and I can hardly remember the first eight songs (which I've just heard...).
I'm going to finish it. But I'm questioning KDS's confidence over being able to make a good EP out of it. Tolerable EP, I'd agree.
I saw Paul on that tour, so I made myself familiar with the album back in early 2002. I listened to it again a couple months ago, and by feelings on the album still stands. Like many Paul albums over the last 30 or so years, there's a lot of "paint by numbers" Paul on this one. I think the album opener, Lonely Road, is a very good song, and by far the best on the album. Unfortunately, it's pretty much downhill from there. Your Loving Flame isn't bad, in that "My Love Version 11.2" kinda way. I also like the looseness on Rinse the Raindrops at the end. So, those three songs make a little under 20 minutes. Ad........I guess Tiny Bubble, and that's about an EP. I actually liked Freedom much more when I first heard it at the Concert for NY than I do now. Good message, but the song really sounds like Paul threw it together backstage while The Who were performing.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 9, 2020 20:08:02 GMT
Freedom ... I get how and why it happened. At the time, the sentiment was something a lot of people found comfort and solidarity in.
But even right away, it honestly sounded like a joke to me, like an SNL bit of people making fun of an inspirational song or something.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 9, 2020 20:19:48 GMT
Thanks, Kapitan and KDS, for nudging me to listen to a few songs off an album I more or less avoid. It's not Paul's worst album in my estimation. Off the top of my head, I'm certain I prefer it to Pipes Of Peace, Press To Play, and Kisses On The Bottom. I also wouldn't call it bad. I'd probably rate it a 6/10. As with most Paul albums, I really enjoy the bass playing (and tone/sound). I'll submit that it's overlong and boring. No question.
Okay, here's my EP:
1. Lonely Road 2. Your Way 3. About You 4. Your Loving Flame
I just listened to it, it flows really well (especially tracks 1-3). Lyrically it even transitions well: "Your Way" ends with "you gave me..." and "About You" begins with "you give me...". Anyway, these are by far my favorite songs on the album. There are a few others I like, but they aren't on the same level. If Paul didn't have such insanely high standards, this EP would be praiseworthy. Now, this is something I'll actually listen to!
By the way, I had forgotten how great Paul's vocal turns out on "Lonely Road". It starts out uninspired and it's not hard to recognize it's his "middle-age" voice, but then he hits those high notes so strongly/clearly and he sounds 20 years younger in an instant! Then he harmonizes with his 'rock' voice and proceeds to rip it up the rest of the way. Really good stuff.
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Post by kds on Jul 10, 2020 12:25:57 GMT
Freedom ... I get how and why it happened. At the time, the sentiment was something a lot of people found comfort and solidarity in.
But even right away, it honestly sounded like a joke to me, like an SNL bit of people making fun of an inspirational song or something. Time likely wasn't a luxury with the Concert for New York being put together pretty quickly, but I'd like to have thought one of the great songwriters of all time could've come up with something a little better. But........then again, it's also very 21st Century Paul.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 10, 2020 13:33:57 GMT
I know "Freedom" has taken a beating over the years, but I kinda liked it. The live Back In The U.S. version really rocks. Like I'm telling Paul McCartney how to write songs , but I wondered why he didn't repeat the verse one more time (with different lyrics) instead of repeating the chorus over and over.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 10, 2020 14:25:08 GMT
That's it: repetitive chorus that, frankly, is kind of a miss to begin with. (I feel bad hating it so much considering the sentiment and the moment. But I do hate it.)
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Post by kds on Jul 10, 2020 14:39:57 GMT
I don't hate it, but I think it could've been better. On second thought, I probably would include it over Tiny Bubbles on my DR EP.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 10, 2020 23:12:27 GMT
"Inspired" by the unfortunate experience of relistening to Driving Rain, I decided to double-check my sanity and confirm all I've ever believed in this world, i.e., I wanted to confirm that Paul McCartney was not terrible by the '00s.
So I listened to Chaos and Creation in the Backyard again. Unlike DR, I hadn't entirely forgotten this album, so I didn't expect to be shocked by my indifference-to-dislike for it upon a new listen. And indeed, just in case you're wondering, Paul McCartney is a goddamn legend.
It's not a GREAT album, but I honestly can't imagine more than 2-3 of the DR songs making their way to this album. It's so, so much stronger throughout, top to bottom. Partly it's the songs, partly it's (probably) the producer (Nigel Godrich). But regardless, it's just MUCH better. I feel good. I prefer liking things to disliking them.
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