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Post by kds on Jan 24, 2020 14:07:41 GMT
And, Bruce wasn't with the band for the recording of Love You like he was with Surf's Up. I think that would absolutely influence Bruce's opinion.
Back to kds's post where he mentioned Mike's negative comments about certain "depressing" songs. Of course we know that those depressing songs were ultimately recorded and released on That's Why God Made Made The Radio, and "Summer's Gone" was performed during the C50 tour. There was mention of a longer BW-composed suite that wasn't completed for TWGMTR, but I don't know anything more about it.
Also, maybe Mike's opinion of "Til I Die" has changed, as The Beach Boys have performed the song numerous times over the last several years.
Yes, "the Life Suite" has been referenced, I think mostly (if not solely) by Joe Thomas. At least the last three songs on TWGMTR are from it, and maybe "Strange World?" But there were apparently also some other parts. It isn't clear how much of it was done, how much more there was, and from what I recall at least some of it was just interstitial music. I thought I read that Think About the Days was part of it too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 24, 2020 14:16:31 GMT
Not to speak for Bruce or misconstrue what he said but again, I think the statement did appear in David Leaf's book which would predate any BW solo efforts and, of course, That's Why God Made The Radio. Also, I wonder if Bruce, when using the term "great", didn't really mean "genius"? And, that is certainly a subjective term/argument, too. If I recall, he also made a similar statement in the Endless Harmony doc, and one that doc, I always interpreted that the early 70s was sort of the dividing line between the genius works and what came later. I remember a statement by Mike in one of the documentaries - and maybe this is the one you're referring to - where Mike was talking about SMiLE and specifically "Heroes And Villains", and said (and I'm very much paraphrasing), "The last time Brian did a dynamic and spectacular song was 'Heroes And Villains', and that was 1967..." or something like that. I think Mike was being his typically honest(?) self and was pointing out that it was several years since Brian recorded a genius song.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:20:10 GMT
I was going to point that out, too, SJS: that Mike had put the "last 'super dynamism'" (I think was the term he used) as being H&V in '67. I think that's in the EH doc.
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Post by kds on Jan 24, 2020 14:32:35 GMT
If I recall, he also made a similar statement in the Endless Harmony doc, and one that doc, I always interpreted that the early 70s was sort of the dividing line between the genius works and what came later. I remember a statement by Mike in one of the documentaries - and maybe this is the one you're referring to - where Mike was talking about SMiLE and specifically "Heroes And Villains", and said (and I'm very much paraphrasing), "The last time Brian did a dynamic and spectacular song was 'Heroes And Villains', and that was 1967..." or something like that. I think Mike was being his typically honest(?) self and was pointing out that it was several years since Brian recorded a genius song. Yeah, I think that was EH also. That's only the doc where Mike infamously said "Brian was melancholy, but I brought the optimism."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 24, 2020 14:36:36 GMT
Not to go off-topic, but what the heck, it's our board and it doesn't really matter, but...
I think the use of the "genius" term is a very interesting subject, especially when it is applied to Brian Wilson's music. It really makes you think, and over the years, I often will try to distinguish which BW songs would fall under the "genius" category, and which ones are simply great. Simply great? Ha ha.
The best example I can apply to this analogy is The Beach Boys Love You. Many times I'll be listening to "Roller Skating Child" or "The Night Was So Young" or "I'll Bet He's Nice and wondering if this is genius music or just great pop music. There's no debating (at least in my opinion) that nobody writes melodies and chord structures and arrangements and whatever like those Love You songs. Nobody. But does it cross that line from great pop music to genius music? In the end it doesn't really matter, but I do think about it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:36:45 GMT
Re "Life Suite," here is the relevant Thomas interview I was thinking of. The bolded bits are the interviewer, the rest if Thomas.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:39:43 GMT
Not to go off-topic, but what the heck, it's our board and it doesn't really matter, but...
I think the use of the "genius" term is a very interesting subject, especially when it is applied to Brian Wilson's music. It really makes you think, and over the years, I often will try to distinguish which BW songs would fall under the "genius" category, and which ones are simply great. Simply great? Ha ha.
The best example I can apply to this analogy is The Beach Boys Love You. Many times I'll be listening to "Roller Skating Child" or "The Night Was So Young" or "I'll Bet He's Nice and wondering if this is genius music or just great pop music. There's no debating (at least in my opinion) that nobody writes melodies and chord structures and arrangements and whatever like those Love You songs. Nobody. But does it cross that line from great pop music to genius music? In the end it doesn't really matter, but I do think about it.
I've thought about this kind of thing a lot, at least since I was in college studying music (jazz and classical), where you find and where people embrace the same kinds of mythology that rock fans use: the genius (almost always coupled with some degree of insanity, eccentricity, and sometimes supernatural overtones).
In the end, I think it's a matter of degrees of the same thing. I don't think there's a dividing line. I don't think there is "genius" other than "really, really good." The rest is mythology, in my opinion. I swear someday I'm going to write a book about it.
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Post by kds on Jan 24, 2020 14:41:02 GMT
Not to go off-topic, but what the heck, it's our board and it doesn't really matter, but...
I think the use of the "genius" term is a very interesting subject, especially when it is applied to Brian Wilson's music. It really makes you think, and over the years, I often will try to distinguish which BW songs would fall under the "genius" category, and which ones are simply great. Simply great? Ha ha.
The best example I can apply to this analogy is The Beach Boys Love You. Many times I'll be listening to "Roller Skating Child" or "The Night Was So Young" or "I'll Bet He's Nice and wondering if this is genius music or just great pop music. There's no debating (at least in my opinion) that nobody writes melodies and chord structures and arrangements and whatever like those Love You songs. Nobody. But does it cross that line from great pop music to genius music? In the end it doesn't really matter, but I do think about it.
Frankly, if a newcomer were to ask me to play something to demonstrate why Brian Wilson is a genius, Love You would be one of the last things I'd play.
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Post by kds on Jan 24, 2020 14:42:16 GMT
Not to go off-topic, but what the heck, it's our board and it doesn't really matter, but...
I think the use of the "genius" term is a very interesting subject, especially when it is applied to Brian Wilson's music. It really makes you think, and over the years, I often will try to distinguish which BW songs would fall under the "genius" category, and which ones are simply great. Simply great? Ha ha.
The best example I can apply to this analogy is The Beach Boys Love You. Many times I'll be listening to "Roller Skating Child" or "The Night Was So Young" or "I'll Bet He's Nice and wondering if this is genius music or just great pop music. There's no debating (at least in my opinion) that nobody writes melodies and chord structures and arrangements and whatever like those Love You songs. Nobody. But does it cross that line from great pop music to genius music? In the end it doesn't really matter, but I do think about it.
I've thought about this kind of thing a lot, at least since I was in college studying music (jazz and classical), where you find and where people embrace the same kinds of mythology that rock fans use: the genius (almost always coupled with some degree of insanity, eccentricity, and sometimes supernatural overtones).
In the end, I think it's a matter of degrees of the same thing. I don't think there's a dividing line. I don't think there is "genius" other than "really, really good." The rest is mythology, in my opinion. I swear someday I'm going to write a book about it.
If you write a book like that and say that not 100% of Brian Wilson's material is pure genius, you'll find yourself on a Brianista's enemies list.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:43:29 GMT
I'm already on their lists anyway, for one reason or another! (Funny, since I was a card-carrying one the first 10 years or so of my fandom and still overwhelmingly prefer and value his contributions to the others' combined ones. But movements eat their own.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 24, 2020 14:43:59 GMT
Re "Life Suite," here is the relevant Thomas interview I was thinking of. The bolded bits are the interviewer, the rest if Thomas.
Thanks for that. I wonder if any of those vignettes turned up on No Pier Pressure in some form.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:47:18 GMT
I've never seen a Thomas interview about NPP, I don't think. And Brian's interviews are, well, let's just say they leave one wanting.
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Post by kds on Jan 24, 2020 14:50:34 GMT
I'm already on their lists anyway, for one reason or another! (Funny, since I was a card-carrying one the first 10 years or so of my fandom and still overwhelmingly prefer and value his contributions to the others' combined ones. But movements eat their own.) I'm sure I am as well.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 24, 2020 14:55:10 GMT
I've never seen a Thomas interview about NPP, I don't think. And Brian's interviews are, well, let's just say they leave one wanting. My reason for asking was three-fold. First, No Pier Pressure followed That's Why God Made The Radio where the vignettes were first fleshed out. Second, Brian is famous for never forgetting an old piece and resurrecting it when it's timely. And third, which falls in line with the second, there might've been a possibility that Brian needed some quality material for No Pier Pressure and might've been experiencing one of his writer's blocks.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2020 14:57:10 GMT
I've never seen a Thomas interview about NPP, I don't think. And Brian's interviews are, well, let's just say they leave one wanting. My reason for asking was three-fold. First, No Pier Pressure followed That's Why God Made The Radio where the vignettes were first fleshed out. Second, Brian is famous for never forgetting an old piece and resurrecting it when it's timely. And third, which falls in line with the second, there might've been a possibility that Brian needed some quality material for No Pier Pressure and might've been experiencing one of his writer's blocks. Oh, I totally get it: very reasonable question. I just wish we had information.
I speculate that some of NPP comes from that material for the reasons you list. Brian--as does many a songwriter--makes use of his stockpiled material, and especially in the later years he has seemingly been churning out less new stuff. So it would make total sense.
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