|
Post by B.E. on Oct 2, 2019 19:57:31 GMT
This release is a rare instance where I prefer the session recordings (box set) to the "album" itself (disc 1; tracks 1-19). When I'm in the mood for Smile I'll typically reach for discs 2-4 and selected bonus tracks from disc 1, such as, the vocal montage, the solo version of "Surf's Up", and "You're Welcome". Basically, I love hearing what Brian was working towards, not where he left off - if that makes sense. I find the box set to be highly inspirational and I'd rate it a 10/10.
The approximation of Smile on disc 1 is a bit frustrating and uneven due to its incompleteness. Beyond that, I'm not a huge fan of all the tracks. Some of it gets a little too weird and child-like for my taste. I find this to be increasingly true as the newness wears off. "I'm In Great Shape", "Barnyard", parts of "Look", "Holidays", "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", and even "Wind Chimes" fall into this category, to varying degrees. Still, I think many of these fragments work pretty well as part of a whole, completed work, but unfortunately disc 1 is not that. Even the songs I love - they're typically available elsewhere, and I don't automatically prefer the Smile versions (it's about 50/50 for me). Despite these issues, I'd still rate disc 1 an 8/10.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 2, 2019 22:16:42 GMT
I put on disc 1 from time to time, but not a lot. As much great material is found across these discs, the set was plagued by untimeliness in my opinion. Had the exact same thing been released in 1997, it would have been received as manna from heaven. But by coming out so long after BWPS, half the fun (or more!) was already had. There wasn't much suspense left except in the corners and around the edges: which specific take would be put here or there, how would Linett deal with this or that technical issue. But the main thrust of things was already long-since absorbed, and much of the magic was spent.
That said, it is wonderful to have higher-quality audio of this stuff. But are there any versions I prefer to other released ones? I'm not sure. If so, not many, or not by much. And in fact, I think some of the decisions that were probably made just to distinguish the "new" versions from older ones were counterproductive, such as the aux percussion and "vocal percussion" included in "Wind Chimes," which I find obtrusive and distracting from one of the most beautiful and peaceful tunes on the album.
The conundrum is that I don't think it could have happened without BWPS, because obviously that's what was used as a template.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Oct 3, 2019 12:20:34 GMT
This may be the ultimate Beach Boys unpopular opinion / hot take. Smile extremely overrated. I know it's hard to say that because, technically, Smile as it was intended in 1967 was not completed (the completeness of the BW '04 version can be debated until Mrs. O' Leary's cows come home).
Now, I might feel this way because I never really lived with the myth of Smile. I got into The Beach Boys fairly late. I remember being a casual fan at best when Brian released the 2004 version, and reading all the glowing reviews about rock's lost masterpiece finally being released.
I also think the best parts of Smile were already released - Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Cabinessence, Surf's Up, and Good Vibrations - all appeared on BB albums from 1967-71. Granted, the Smile versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes didn't come out officially until later, but to me, most of the rest of Smile is pretty disposable. Barnyard noises, hammering nails, songs about vegetables. Borders between lunacy and pretentiousness to me.
I see fans rate all parts of Smile very highly, and on the Beautiful Dreamer doc, Carol Kaye says Smile would've blown Pet Sounds away. I just don't hear it.
Granted, the high parts are very very high. But, it's extremely uneven as a full piece of work.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Nov 25, 2019 23:54:32 GMT
Does anyone think it's possible that Smile is more popular today than it would have been if it were released in 1967?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Nov 25, 2019 23:57:43 GMT
I think there's a good chance of that, yes. Not that I'm sure--it may well have been a #1 hit, a classic album. I don't know. But I do think that its decades-long delay built a mythical status that just couldn't have existed had it come out in real time, at which point it would have simply been the next album by that rock and roll band, the Beach Boys. It would have been seen as weird, beautiful in spots. But I don't know that genius would have been a common theme at the time. Maybe.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Nov 26, 2019 0:46:02 GMT
I tend to agree. I think it depends on the scale of influence it would have had. The greater its influence on other works, the more modern it would seem. And, thus, the more important (and less weird). Being a #1 hit wouldn't have been enough. Party! was a huge commercial success, but is hardly remembered and when it is it's largely derided. The really interesting thing about Smile is that most of the best bits WERE released. That helped propel the myth, along with the nature and quality of Brian's work before and after, but did those released bits have the effect that fans imagine they would have if Smile had been completed? Well, the answer to that is 'no'. Perhaps, the world was no longer listening. I imagine that's true, to an extent. But, it's also possible that the myth, the bootlegs, BWPS, and the sessions, kept it alive in a way that it may not have otherwise. People love a great story. And, many love puzzles, too.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Nov 26, 2019 1:06:32 GMT
I don’t know: the best bits were released before 2004, sure. But it took a couple years for Our Prayer and Cabinessence, even more for Surfs Up, and until the 90s for the real Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Fire. H&V too.
I guess what we’ll never know is how it might’ve been received all at once rather than trickling out over years (and decades). But no doubt the mysterious puzzle helped legend-wise.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Nov 26, 2019 1:35:07 GMT
I don’t know: the best bits were released before 2004, sure. But it took a couple years for Our Prayer and Cabinessence, even more for Surfs Up, and until the 90s for the real Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Fire. H&V too. Sure, I meant within a few years. Brian's performance of "Surf's Up" also aired on CBS in 1967. We'd also get "Cool Cool Water". We had "Good Vibrations". For me, it's just interesting that, at once, the music of Smile was both known and unknown, released and unreleased. Its incompleteness dismissed criticism. Yet, the music, in many ways, was that good. It's not like only the worst bits made it out. FAR from it. Regarding H&V, I don't think the Smile versions are sufficiently greater as to change public perception of the song. Regarding the other SS versions, the core elements of the songs were there to be praised. They weren't. I guess what we’ll never know is how it might’ve been received all at once rather than trickling out over years (and decades). No question.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Nov 26, 2019 1:48:29 GMT
Oh I definitely think it’s night and day from the SS versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes and the Smile /box set versions. To me the latter were absolutely revelatory. Totally different songs, I think.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Nov 26, 2019 2:37:24 GMT
Just an aside, I've been thinking lately about the importance of production. On one hand, it's undeniably important - a major factor. On the other, I suspect a good song is a good song. The engineering can be poor, the performance sloppy, the production unremarkable in every way, but people hear the tune and they dig it. A production standard develops (and changes) over time, but is that necessary? The Five Satins' "In The Still Of The Nite", anyone?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Apr 17, 2021 13:41:19 GMT
I noticed this video today of a fan comparing The Smile Sessions to Brian Wilson Presents Smile. He had heard the latter first and took a while to warm to both, apparently, but eventually came to like both. Pros and cons, etc., discussed here. It's always interesting hearing perspectives on these things, especially noting how people's individual circumstances or approaches seem to influence their opinions.
|
|
fdleone
Denny's Drums
Posts: 6
Likes: 14
|
Post by fdleone on Dec 17, 2021 22:21:29 GMT
I am listening to the LP SMiLE mix and really prefer this version. Over the years I had gotten three bootlegs and then in 2004 the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE - but The SMiLE Sessions trumps them all, IMO. For me the problem with the Presents version is the singing. I vastly prefer the young voices and original tracking musicians.
And no, I don't think that the album is more popular today than had it come out in 1967 (although "popular" is a weird standard). Had it come out then, I think it would have been seen as the masterpiece it is (greater than Pet Sounds), and would have had a major impact on the music scene of that time. But judging from Capitol's reaction to Pet Sounds there is every reason to believe that the album was doomed no matter how hard Brian may have fought for its release. And as we now know, he did not have much fight in him at that time.
I see the shelving of this record as what pushed Brian Wilson into seclusion, and for a decade he never really contributed to the Beach Boys until the Love You album - but at such a lower level of inspiration. And that is how things remained until his solo records - but they are a mixed bag. I think the psychological damage done by the rejection (both from within the group and from the record label) of SMiLE, and to some extent Pet Sounds, was a gut punch from which he never really recovered.
That said, one has to realize how resilient Brian Wilson really is. To have continued making music now into his 80s can only happen if he has a strong will and desire to keep writing and recording.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 17, 2021 22:29:56 GMT
I agree and disagree with different parts of that. (Which is what makes message boards fun, of course! By the way, it's great having you here posting.)
I also do prefer the 1967 voices: in fact it would be very hard not to. I remember being thrilled with how well Brian sang back in 2004, but of course that was coming off Gettin In Over My Head, which had some of his worst vocals ever, in my opinion, not to mention the up-and-down performances in the '90s. In hindsight, yes, it was better than some of what he had sung, but also not as well as he did later, like on That Lucky Old Sun, Gershwin, or even Disney (though I don't much care for that album). His band did a great job on harmonies, though. They were a special bunch. (I say "were" because of how several of them aren't with him anymore.)
Re "popular," I think it was just meant as one point of conversation, not the standard. I don't think anyone here would put that kind of weight on popularity. That said, it isn't meaningless, either! If something is "great" but nobody likes it...?
I have to disagree about Brian not contributing to the Beach Boys from post-Smile until Love You, though. I know that was the story for a long time, and of course it is DEFINITELY true that he backed off quite a bit. But he certainly contributed plenty. Think of some of his songs in that period: - Darlin - Wild Honey - Let the Wind Blow - Time to Get Alone - I'd Love Just Once to See You - Friends - Wake the World - Busy Doin Nothin - I Went to Sleep - Do It Again - This Whole World - Cool Cool Water - Til I Die - You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone
- Marcella - It's OK
(That's a blend of some of the more successful tunes and some I happen to like. Obviously everyone has his or her own taste!)
Clearly he slowed down a lot, and he was more hit-and-miss. But he wasn't absent.
Thanks for reviving this thread, I hadn't thought about it in a while.
EDIT - oh, and also, I absolutely agree with your last point. Brian Wilson has been very resilient. Obviously he isn't in great health as he approaches his 80th, and he's had more than his share of downs among his ups and downs. I don't think anyone 50 years ago would have predicted he'd be the last Wilson standing, still with us in 2021, much less still putting out music and (most surprisingly) touring.
|
|
fdleone
Denny's Drums
Posts: 6
Likes: 14
|
Post by fdleone on Dec 18, 2021 1:01:11 GMT
My point was to compare Brian's involvement up to SMiLE in which he had 100% control in the studio, writing, arranging, and producing every track, to basically less and less involvement until he was barely present. I can't help but feel his desire to work with the band disappeared. In fact, I think he was quoted as saying he didn't like them anymore and didn't even want to be in the same room with them, much less make records with them.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2021 1:37:43 GMT
When you put it that way, yes, I definitely agree.
In fact, I think Brian's dislike for, or at least preference not to work with regularly, the other Beach Boys is one of the key truths that has maybe been pushed aside in the past decade or two that's most bizarre to me.
What I mean is, as I became a fan (late 90s, in my early 20s), the story was so dominated by Brian, including some distortions for sure: he stayed in bed 3 years; he almost entirely checked out from the band immediately after Smile; the others were basically no-talent hacks who, other than singing well, were 100% riding his coat tails. That kind of thing was what I remember hearing and reading everywhere.
But thankfully, somewhere around the mid 00s especially, the online fan base at least began to see more of the full picture. I think that's great. Even Mike gets quite a bit of respect from almost everyone these days (not that his flaws are overlooked).
It seems to me, though, that somewhere along that shift, the actual antipathy (or at least inability to relate) between Brian and the group has been underappreciated. I think there is more bitterness in there than we like to think. I don't care how many times we're told he and Mike get along great and would actually love to get together and write some music, I just don't believe it. I'm sure he has times when he feels that way, but if it were a strong, consistent desire, he wouldn't have been mostly on his own these past 30+ years.
|
|