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Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 19:19:49 GMT
Well that’s something the most recent shows might have served to irrevocably change: it is obvious to any honest, clear thinker how much help BW needs these days. Granted, an album isn’t a concert, but it’s not as if the studio-enhanced Brian of NPP could carry the day either. (I’m not just saying he handed over vox to guests, which proves nothing; I’m saying most of his vocals were of limited quality.)
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Post by kds on Jul 8, 2019 12:38:06 GMT
I agree that he's probably lost his genius, and that's not really a slight on Brian, or anything that he's done over the last, say 40 years. But, it's just kind of reality. Just as an athlete's abilities fade over time, I think musicians' abilities can also. Especially one who has been through what Brian has been through. Yes, it's not a slight on Brian, and that's why I would resent it when, on some message boards, people would get bent all out of shape if you even insinuated it. Nothing personal, just an observation, an opinion no less.
But it also made me question why Brian's wifeandmanagers were pushing his solo career so much. Because Brian "lost his fastball" so to speak, because he was relying more and more on collaborators, and because he couldn't fill an entire album with top-flight BW material, why not release the best of what he had, and fill in the spaces with material from Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce, and even David. Now I'm really changing the subject! But not really... Their doesn't seem to be a lot of logic to Brian's team. It seemed like they were trying to push the "Brian Wilson Brand" for a long time with diminishing returns. Meanwhile, the best album Brian Wilson has done in the last several decades (IMO) just happened to be a Beach Boys reunion album.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 18, 2019 21:06:34 GMT
Some very good insights here. Will I get in trouble here if I blame Melinda for some of the above?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 18, 2019 21:21:32 GMT
Some very good insights here. Will I get in trouble here if I blame Melinda for some of the above? We’re in a free-speech friendly board here! We say what we believe, and as long as nobody’s being a jerk just for the sake of it—and no trouble on that front—it’s no problem. You can be in or against ANY “camp” or era in these-here cyberparts. (I don’t know why I finished up talking like a cowboy...) I’d love to hear more about what you blame her for.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 19, 2019 20:45:58 GMT
Some very good insights here. Will I get in trouble here if I blame Melinda for some of the above? We’re in a free-speech friendly board here! We say what we believe, and as long as nobody’s being a jerk just for the sake of it—and no trouble on that front—it’s no problem. You can be in or against ANY “camp” or era in these-here cyberparts. (I don’t know why I finished up talking like a cowboy...) I’d love to hear more about what you blame her for. In general, i'm not impressed with spouses acting as managers for an artist. And I don't think I've EVER heard Melinda say anything nice about Carl or Dennis. She has her own agenda, and Brian goes along with it, because it's easier to go along with it than fight it. Now as Hermain Cain said, "I don't have facts to back this up"...just my gut level feeling.
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Post by kds on Aug 20, 2019 12:15:29 GMT
We’re in a free-speech friendly board here! We say what we believe, and as long as nobody’s being a jerk just for the sake of it—and no trouble on that front—it’s no problem. You can be in or against ANY “camp” or era in these-here cyberparts. (I don’t know why I finished up talking like a cowboy...) I’d love to hear more about what you blame her for. In general, i'm not impressed with spouses acting as managers for an artist. And I don't think I've EVER heard Melinda say anything nice about Carl or Dennis. She has her own agenda, and Brian goes along with it, because it's easier to go along with it than fight it. Now as Hermain Cain said, "I don't have facts to back this up"...just my gut level feeling. I pretty much agree with that. I think Melinda has been pushing Brian Wilson as a solo touring act for two decades now, and she would prefer for Brian to continue to tour as a solo act and release solo albums than return to The Beach Boys. When C50 ended, and Mike Love took most of the blame in the eyes of fans, she stayed mum on the issue and went forward with promoting Brian's biopic and next solo album. (Again, just theories).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 20, 2019 12:46:42 GMT
When C50 ended, and Mike Love took most of the blame in the eyes of fans, she stayed mum on the issue and went forward with promoting Brian's biopic and next solo album. Do you mean after she sent Mike the "No more shows for Wilson" email?
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Post by kds on Aug 20, 2019 13:02:40 GMT
When C50 ended, and Mike Love took most of the blame in the eyes of fans, she stayed mum on the issue and went forward with promoting Brian's biopic and next solo album. Do you mean after she sent Mike the "No more shows for Wilson" email? Pretty much.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 21, 2019 0:36:18 GMT
Do you mean after she sent Mike the "No more shows for Wilson" email? Pretty much. There's always gotta be someone keeping Brian away from the Beach Boys. In the 80's, it was Dr. Eugene Landy. He thought Brian was going to be a huge superstar as a solo artist. Well, that didn't quite work out the way he had hoped. It seems like what Brian has done in more recent years has always been someone else's idea; he did the film with Don Was, and recorded the songs Was had picked out for him to do. Van Dyke Parks asked him to sing on Orange Crate Art, so he did it. Meanwhile, Brian was recording new material with Andy Paley, but Melinda didn't like it, so he did Imagination instead. And it took a lot of prodding from Darian to get Brian to revisit the Smile material. I'm not saying all this is bad; but I still wonder what music Brian would be doing if it was completely up to him?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 21, 2019 1:29:44 GMT
Probably not much, not often. Assuming he were alive.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 21, 2019 1:57:56 GMT
This is getting off-topic, but I think many fans tend to underestimate just how much Brian's mental illness affects his ability to create and release music. Arguably, Friends was the last album that Brian willed into existence. And, he only just got that out before being hospitalized that year (or so it's been reported). Ever since, he's needed some combination of co-writers, co-producers, intervention, and management to complete projects. So, when fans talk about Brian being controlled, I think it's at least partially misguided.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 21, 2019 2:30:37 GMT
My opinion on Brian's solo career was formed a long time ago and it hasn't changed very much since then. When the rumblings of a Brian Wilson solo album surfaced in the mid-1980's, I was behind it. I mean, what the heck, The Beach Boys weren't doing much, Brian certainly LOOKED like he could record a solo album, and I thought that NOW was finally the time for Brian to stretch out and record the brilliant music that didn't quite fit into the Beach Boys' blueprint. You know, an album full of SMiLE, "Til I Die", and Love You-type tracks along with new ground-breaking music.
Well, I'm still waiting. For someone as prolific a songwriter as Brian Wilson was, I figured he could easily - EASILY - fill an album worth of great stuff. I knew the voice was different/changed, I had no idea what kind of production to expect, and I really didn't care about the subject matter of the songs. What I did expect was incomparable songwriting, songs with that indelible Brian Wilson stamp. And, in my opinion, that never quite surfaced.
All of Brian's solo albums have a sameness to them, at least mathematically. Each solo album has two or three keepers, two or three good songs, and the remaining songs? Covers, re-recordings, songs prominently written by collaborators, and songs that are just...meh. The most disappointing aspect of Brian's solo recordings is the absence of the magic. There is something in every Beach Boys' song that Brian wrote from 1961-1980 that has the undeniable BW quality - that spark, that magic, that special feeling. I didn't/don't find that in most of Brian's solo music. I find Brian consciously or subconsciously trying to duplicate or channel his previous work, and frankly I think he came up short.
After being somewhat frustrated with each successive solo album, I started to wonder why it was decided for Brian to continue his solo recording career. Yes, at the beginning I got it. Did anyone deserve a shot at recording solo albums more than Brian Wilson? No. But it then became obvious that he barely had enough new material to fill a solo album, and I started to give up hope. How many times can you get your hopes up high with all of the hype and publicity, only to become disappointed? I had it with the tribute albums, the covers albums, and the live albums. That was just "product", lame attempts at keeping a solo career alive. Eventually, I was turned off with the Brian Wilson solo career and wished that he would return to recording with The Beach Boys. Let Brian contribute his six or seven good songs and fill in the rest of the album with songs from Mike, Al, and Bruce (and David on TWGMTR). If that's all that Brian had to share, why try to stretch it out over an entire solo album. And I won't even get into an entire album of Brian Wilson lead vocals.
You're going to have a hard time convincing me that over the last 30+ years, Brian only wanted to record with The Beach Boys in 2012 and 2013. And speaking of the potential followup to TWGMTR, things should've been worked out. There are a lot of people to blame on that one, not just Mike. It's probably too late now. The game is just about over. Yeah, I still hold out hope for one more Beach Boys with Brian album, or one more single, or one more concert. But I don't think the disappointment will ever fade away, the years of 1993 - present, when Brian woulda/shoulda/coulda recorded albums, several albums with The Beach Boys. Such a waste.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 21, 2019 2:42:37 GMT
This is getting off-topic, but I think many fans tend to underestimate just how much Brian's mental illness affects his ability to create and release music. Arguably, Friends was the last album that Brian willed into existence. And, he only just got that out before being hospitalized that year (or so it's been reported). Ever since, he's needed some combination of co-writers, co-producers, intervention, and management to complete projects. So, when fans talk about Brian being controlled, I think it's at least partially misguided. Agree, then why a SOLO career? Why put more pressure on him to carry an entire album with songwriting, production, and singing? And then the touring? Well, we know now that he did get a lot of...help. But at what cost? By that I mean, how successful was Brian's solo recording career? And I realize successful is a subjective term to use.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 21, 2019 3:33:04 GMT
This is getting off-topic, but I think many fans tend to underestimate just how much Brian's mental illness affects his ability to create and release music. Arguably, Friends was the last album that Brian willed into existence. And, he only just got that out before being hospitalized that year (or so it's been reported). Ever since, he's needed some combination of co-writers, co-producers, intervention, and management to complete projects. So, when fans talk about Brian being controlled, I think it's at least partially misguided. Agree, then why a SOLO career? Why put more pressure on him to carry an entire album with songwriting, production, and singing? And then the touring? Well, we know now that he did get a lot of...help. But at what cost? By that I mean, how successful was Brian's solo recording career? And I realize successful is a subjective term to use. I disagree that a solo career put more pressure on him than rejoining the Beach Boys would have. As you state, he had a lot of help. The whole operation was designed to support him. Is that how any fan would describe Brian and The Beach Boys' relationship... ever? Think about it - did Brian and The Beach Boys ever really figure out how to co-exist once Brian lost control over the group (and his mental health began to decline). I don't think so. It's been an awkward fit ever since, often exasperated by group infighting. Pressure-wise, I also think a reunited Beach Boys trump any solo release or tour. In that regard, Brian doesn't have to live up to his past glories in such a direct manner. I think that Brian having a solo career is a success in itself. Honestly, I think that The Beach Boys gave up on Brian (as a vital member of the group). So, if Brian hadn't had a solo career and were strictly confined to releasing music through the group, then we'd only have a small fraction of it. Consider that he still would have needed co-writers and co-producers - the number of decision-makers have only increased!
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Post by kds on Aug 21, 2019 12:15:38 GMT
There's always gotta be someone keeping Brian away from the Beach Boys. In the 80's, it was Dr. Eugene Landy. He thought Brian was going to be a huge superstar as a solo artist. Well, that didn't quite work out the way he had hoped. It seems like what Brian has done in more recent years has always been someone else's idea; he did the film with Don Was, and recorded the songs Was had picked out for him to do. Van Dyke Parks asked him to sing on Orange Crate Art, so he did it. Meanwhile, Brian was recording new material with Andy Paley, but Melinda didn't like it, so he did Imagination instead. And it took a lot of prodding from Darian to get Brian to revisit the Smile material. I'm not saying all this is bad; but I still wonder what music Brian would be doing if it was completely up to him? I'm honestly not sure if his music would be that much different. I mean, for as inconsistent as it is, Brian's solo catalog still has a lot to like for a guy in his 6th decade. Although it's worth noting that the most consistent album of material (IMHO) that he's released in the last 20 years had input from Mike Love (TWGMTR).
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