|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 16:55:10 GMT
I think some fans new to the game are unfairly expecting to hear some "genius" moments in Brian's solo material, and wind up being very underwhelmed as a result. I also think they're looking for genius in the wrong way. A lot--I won't say all, but a lot, and I was one of these--have been convinced either that the psychedelia of 1966-67 is the genius, or that the man-child holy fool of 1976-77 is the genius. But there is nothing inherently superior about psychedelia over pop, RnB, rock n roll, Brill Building, white vocal jazz, Motown, or the other styles Brian flirted with (often far longer and more deeply than he did with psychedelia, which was a blip).
Brian's genius was a) his ability to take mainstream styles and add small surprises that made them sound both unique and familiar, such as a chord progression that maybe went backward, or a surprise chord, or a melodic twist, or a key change, or a dropped or added beat; b) his pure enthusiasm and energy; and c) his brilliant vocal harmony arrangements. And those are things you can find in his 1963, 1966, 1969, 1972 music, and sometimes even his 2000s music. You can dig deeper and deeper into a Smile-shaped hole, but that's a path of diminishing returns.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 17:33:40 GMT
I think there are some flashes in Brian's 2000 material, but who knows if that's Brian, or Joe Thomas or Scott Bennett trying to channel Brian Wilson style arrangements.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 17:36:40 GMT
Yes, that is definitely the (currently) unanswerable question.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 17:45:01 GMT
Yes, that is definitely the (currently) unanswerable question. Yep, and it may never be answered, especially if the songs are a lot more Joe/Scott than Brian. But, at the end of the day, it's good late career music from a legacy artist, so as a fan, you really can't ask for more.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
Yes, two paths of thinking from this.
1) The music itself is still mostly decent. Listenable to good, usually (with some stinkers, though). Whether the parts I like came from Brian, frankly, doesn't get me worked up. Just as I don't care whether it was Brian, Carl, or VDP who decided to use cellos on Good Vibrations. The way the finished music sounds, that's what I care about. The sausage-making process is interesting, but not an essential component to enjoying the music.
2) Whether we'll ever learn the truth, it's another of those things I suspect will be after Brian dies. But even then it's a matter of who will talk, and when. Presumably his family will want to control the myth as much as possible, which means people like Andy Paley, Darian Sahanaja, Scott Bennett, and Joe Thomas might find themselves restricted (whether directly or indirectly). They may even feel a lingering loyalty. But in my opinion, it would serve history for the reality to come out at some point, too.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 18:17:07 GMT
This may sound cold and cynical, but the myth is probably more lucrative now, while Brian is still around. Once the day comes when that's no longer the case, the truth may prove to be more lucrative.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 18:24:57 GMT
I think that's completely true. But that's why I said "family" instead of "management" or "former colleagues" or something. I think his family is most likely to keep an eye on reputation regardless, while other parties may well have more interest in the business aspects.
Obviously people could make statements, write tell-alls, etc., without the family, too. But the "authorized" stamp would allow for access that unauthorized work can't. It is going to be interesting to see what is said, what is released, when, and by whom.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 5, 2019 18:41:41 GMT
I think fans who discover Brian's solo music for the first time, expecting to be blown away (or even satisfied) and ultimately being disappointed, stem from three very simple, basic facts. He don't sing/sound like the Beach Boys' records, he don't rock like The Beach Boys' records, and his ballads aren't as pretty as The Beach Boys' records. Period. People, including diehards, buy the Brian Wilson solo records based on expectations. This is partly due to the media hype and record company advertising which perfectly is understandable - he's back and his new music sounds great, just like 1965 again! But I also think music fans have a hard time believing that talent can be lost. Certainly it's just dormant. Certainly it can be brought back. Certainly Brian Wilson is still a genius. You can't un-genius can you?
I am doubtful or at least skeptical that we will ever find out the truth behind Brian's...collaborating. Years ago Joe Thomas spoke out about not receiving proper credit and Melinda sued his ass. That might serve as a precedent. But the other reason might be that Brian is such a sympathetic figure that his collaborators wouldn't want to harm him or his reputation in any way. What would they have to gain anyway? One by one his collaborators are going to pass away and they will take the truth(s) with them. Then we're back to speculation again.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 18:47:24 GMT
But I also think music fans have a hard time believing that talent can be lost. I think this is debatable, especially considering how often you hear "(Insert artist here) hasn't released a good album since (classic album from decades ago)" among music fans. I'm not even so sure if talent can actually be lost or if it's just the reality that it's almost impossible to remain prolific for a long period of time and still churn out high quality material. I think you can make a valid case for either when it comes to Brian.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 18:50:24 GMT
Certainly Brian Wilson is still a genius. You can't un-genius can you? I think you can "un-genius." Rather, I would say that I don't think genius is a permanent state of being, something you are; I think genius is something you do. My evidence would be that no one (or at least darn close to no one) has sustained his or her peak. Every "genius" has created mediocrity, and even trash.
The work is genius. The artist creates it (sometimes).
What I'd say about Brian is, he obviously has music deeply ingrained in him. He sits at a piano and fiddles through complex harmonies. He knows a good hook, he arranges beautiful vocals. He didn't lose his musical capacity. But I think he probably lost his genius, for the most part.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 5, 2019 18:58:21 GMT
Certainly Brian Wilson is still a genius. You can't un-genius can you? I think you can "un-genius." Rather, I would say that I don't think genius is a permanent state of being, something you are; I think genius is something you do. My evidence would be that no one (or at least darn close to no one) has sustained his or her peak. Every "genius" has created mediocrity, and even trash.
The work is genius. The artist creates it (sometimes).
What I'd say about Brian is, he obviously has music deeply ingrained in him. He sits at a piano and fiddles through complex harmonies. He knows a good hook, he arranges beautiful vocals. He didn't lose his musical capacity. But I think he probably lost his genius, for the most part.
I agree with you, and I only raised that question to show what I think is the prevailing attitude of a large segment of Brian's fan base. I have to admit it bothers me somewhat when I see Brian referred to as a genius in the present tense. Again, yeah I know much of it is PR and respect. But I think a lot of people really believe that the Brian of today can and will, if he really wants to and under the right circumstances, produce more "genius music". And for a long time I fell into that category of fan. For several years. But you can only get hit over the head so many times or be disappointed so many times...
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 18:59:59 GMT
I agree that he's probably lost his genius, and that's not really a slight on Brian, or anything that he's done over the last, say 40 years. But, it's just kind of reality. Just as an athlete's abilities fade over time, I think musicians' abilities can also. Especially one who has been through what Brian has been through.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 5, 2019 19:01:59 GMT
I think you can "un-genius." Rather, I would say that I don't think genius is a permanent state of being, something you are; I think genius is something you do. My evidence would be that no one (or at least darn close to no one) has sustained his or her peak. Every "genius" has created mediocrity, and even trash.
The work is genius. The artist creates it (sometimes).
What I'd say about Brian is, he obviously has music deeply ingrained in him. He sits at a piano and fiddles through complex harmonies. He knows a good hook, he arranges beautiful vocals. He didn't lose his musical capacity. But I think he probably lost his genius, for the most part.
I agree with you, and I only raised that question to show what I think is the prevailing attitude of a large segment of Brian's fan base. I have to admit it bothers me somewhat when I see Brian referred to as a genius in the present tense. Again, yeah I know much of it is PR and respect. But I think a lot of people really believe that the Brian of today can and will, if he really wants to and under the right circumstances, produce more "genius music". And for a long time I fell into that category of fan. For several years. But you can only get hit over the head so many times or be disappointed so many times... That's true, and I think that's one of the traits of the infamous "Brianista," and they'll swear up and down that Brian's latest album is on par with Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2019 19:04:46 GMT
I guess I probably would still refer to Brian as a genius, but it would be out of respect. And as I said, I think he's still got those things that you can't (easily) lose related to comprehension of and feel for music. In the same way, I'd still call Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, and Edward Van Halen geniuses ... even though the most recent musical evidence of the whole lot would be probably the best moment's of Brian's TLOS or Dylan's Modern Times, which happened about 11 and 14 years ago, respectively.
But that's different. That's an honorific title, not a state of being or perfectly accurate adjective.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 5, 2019 19:06:36 GMT
I agree that he's probably lost his genius, and that's not really a slight on Brian, or anything that he's done over the last, say 40 years. But, it's just kind of reality. Just as an athlete's abilities fade over time, I think musicians' abilities can also. Especially one who has been through what Brian has been through. Yes, it's not a slight on Brian, and that's why I would resent it when, on some message boards, people would get bent all out of shape if you even insinuated it. Nothing personal, just an observation, an opinion no less.
But it also made me question why Brian's wifeandmanagers were pushing his solo career so much. Because Brian "lost his fastball" so to speak, because he was relying more and more on collaborators, and because he couldn't fill an entire album with top-flight BW material, why not release the best of what he had, and fill in the spaces with material from Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce, and even David. Now I'm really changing the subject! But not really...
|
|