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Post by Kapitan on Jul 4, 2019 21:42:10 GMT
I don't recall seeing this 1991 (post autobiography, pre-Sweet Insanity) interview before. It's interesting, if not especially good. Though you have to love the moment around the 3-minute mark when he is describing Landy's approach to him, and he swears, only to then say "darn" as the bleep ends. lol
As messed up as he was in those days, one has to note that he was at least talking.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 5, 2019 3:44:59 GMT
I didn't know this was a thing:
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 5, 2019 12:28:49 GMT
I didn't know this was a thing: It's from this album:
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 5, 2019 15:39:17 GMT
I don't recall seeing this 1991 (post autobiography, pre-Sweet Insanity) interview before. It's interesting, if not especially good. Though you have to love the moment around the 3-minute mark when he is describing Landy's approach to him, and he swears, only to then say "darn" as the bleep ends. lol
As messed up as he was in those days, one has to note that he was at least talking.
In response to this video, there's a lot of ground to cover, and I've thought of starting a thread to address it (but probably only 3 or 4 people will contribute to it and it'll die a quick death).
I'll simply ask the same question that always enters my mind when I see Brian in this "condition". What in the hell happened to him? When you see videos of Brian in 1980 and 1981, he appears actually very lucid, calm, and dare I say, thoughtful. He answers questions, doesn't go through a series of troubling facial expressions, and even displays a sense of humor. While I won't go as far as saying he was "back" musically, he did appear vastly improved from the wired, gruff Brian a la the 1976 Mike Douglas interview and other interviews from that early "Brian Is Back" period.
I can't recall any 1982 interviews with Brian right now, but when he re-emerged from Landy's treatment in 1983, he appeared to be a completely different person, and not in a positive way. His face was contorted, his eyes were sometimes menacing, he speech pattern was different, and, while being more...conversational...he was much weirder, even for Brian. One might even say that he was off-putting and made you uncomfortable to observe.
The question is - why? Was it simply the heavy, psychotropic drugs that Dr. Landy was giving to Brian? Did Brian suffer some kind of mental breakdown, some mental relapse in 1982? Or was it a combination of the two? I once read a post on another BB forum, from a person who claimed to be a doctor, that the medication Landy prescribed to Brian could not have PERMANENT damaging effects. Mind altering? Yes. Mood controlling? Absolutely. But according to this doctor/post, Brian could be weaned off these drugs without lasting effects. I don't know what Landy prescribed and I don't know if that statement is true. When you look at Brian in interviews such as the one above, he does appear to be under the influence of something, but at the same time you can just as easily infer that he was seriously ill.
The sad fact is that Brian was never the same. He never reverted to even his prior 1980-81 self. In almost all of the public statements from Brian's camp over the last several decades, they list mental illness as Brian's biggest obstacle. While they occasionally mention Landy's treatment, they don't specifically list the medications as having PERMANENT effects. That would make it permanent brain damage wouldn't it? Even the movie, Love And Mercy, focuses more on the emotional, controlling abuse than the damaging medications (though that subject is addressed). I guess we'll never know. The books have been written and the movies have been made. HIPPA Laws are going to make certain information even tougher to disclose. And Brian, when asked about his biggest regrets, obstacles, and conditions, will answer "I wish I wouldn't have taken as many drugs". Not Landy, not mental illness...
Check out these short clips from early 1980; a different Brian...funny, more relaxed, in the moment:
Check this one out. Brian comes on at 2:40. He isn't thrilled to be there, but he's able to give a thoughtful, coherent answer without the uncomfortable body language:
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Post by B.E. on Jul 20, 2019 17:49:18 GMT
We could probably use a separate thread (perhaps in the Reference Materials sub-board) to keep track of the various websites, youtube channels, and podcasts with significant Beach Boys content, but for now I'd just like to plug a youtube channel that I enjoy. He's got a ton of Beach Boys related videos (mostly album reviews). Check it out! "Vinyl community, music fans, random people on the internet, my name is Giggens." Giggens - link
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Post by Ian on Jul 20, 2019 21:34:16 GMT
Must add that though the mike come back to la clip is fun to see-I’ve interviewed people who were present and they say that fun wasn’t plentiful at those sessions-especially when both factions were (briefly) together in Iowa. One look at my book or other ones illustrate that the fall of 1977 may have been the closest the band came to breaking up
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 21, 2019 14:13:40 GMT
Must add that though the mike come back to la clip is fun to see-I’ve interviewed people who were present and they say that fun wasn’t plentiful at those sessions-especially when both factions were (briefly) together in Iowa. One look at my book or other ones illustrate that the fall of 1977 may have been the closest the band came to breaking up I find the M.I.U. sessions fascinating, and I wish there was more published coverage of them. Regardless of what you think of the music that came out, it was a productive little venture. There was a lot of recording. I always viewed it as Mike and Brian - well, at least Mike - trying to recapture the "good old days" in writing songs with Brian. And, I guess unfortunately, Brian was giving to an extent, but not near what his previous creativity allowed.
There is also the uniqueness of Al producing the tracks - where did THAT come from!
Yes, sadly there was much division in the group at that time. And to think how soon it was after their great "comeback" in 1976. They let it slip away, and M.I.U. was the nail in the coffin. After that, they had to start yet another comeback with L.A. (Light Album) - and a new record company.
One of my dream projects would be a 2CD edition of The M.I.U. Sessions. CD1 would be comprised of the M.I.U. album and any unreleased tracks, alternate takes, or even rare live performance tracks. But CD2 is my real wish. I would like to see Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys get a legitimate release, and this way might be the only chance it has. I can't see Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys ever getting a standalone CD release, but I think as part of a larger project like I am proposing, it makes more sense. The only other option would another Ultimate Christmas-like release, where they cut back on the 17 versions of "Little St. Nick" to allow the full Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys album.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 5, 2019 18:56:41 GMT
Here's an interview with Brian from a few years ago. It's interesting that after all of the focus on Brian's mental illness recently, he still mentions drugs as the main culprit for his problems.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2019 19:24:01 GMT
It is interesting, but it’s also not necessarily valid. His problems seem to have emerged (or gotten worse, anyway) around the time he started using hard drugs, but it’s also true that mental illness often shows signs during late adolescence through mid-20s with boys and men. So it may well just be correlation, not causation. An analog, you often hear people who are sure they got cancer from being near [whatever], or their kid got autism from a vaccine, or their parent died after [such-such]. They believe it, and the instinct is to assume they know best … but that still doesn’t make it true. Mental illness obviously ran in their family. The drugs, I assume, brought out some worse aspects of it. (What’s interesting is that researchers now are studying how psychedelics (taken under supervision) can help mitigate mental illness, depression, etc.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 5, 2019 20:30:24 GMT
I agree with your points. What I find interesting about Brian Wilson is that he has consistently, without wavering, blamed drugs for his condition. And I don't know if he is just "throwing it out there" in interviews like he does with other subjects, as if he is avoiding discussion of his mental illness diagnosis. I don't think I have ever heard Brian say that he was mentally ill, just that he did too many drugs.
I remember an interview that came out around the time of the Love And Mercy movie, and the interview was centered around mental illness, and how to live through it and persevere through it. There were a few people present for the interview, and all of them spoke specifically about mental illness. Brian didn't contribute much, and at the end, they kind of asked Brian for a final word, and he said something very brief like "Don't take drugs." Of course there was the typical laughter that surrounds Brian when he says something like that.
Brian seems sincere in his conviction, like he really knows what happened to him, because he knows the person he was pre-drugs, and then what he became post-drugs. He is very open about admitting that he wrote some great music under the influence. Never mind living with the mental illness, it must be terribly difficult to live, knowing that some of your greatest work, songs that built your reputation, were so affected by drug intake.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2019 20:39:02 GMT
That—whether and how drugs affect creativity—is a whole other thing. Obviously some people(including Brian) say the drugs actively helped. Others say that’s a crutch, that if anything they just lower your inhibitions and let you be more yourself.
I’ve never been able to write anything good (musically or otherwise) when under the influence, though I’m not much worse, either, unless REALLY under the influence. But then again I’ve only ever been a drinker and sometimes weed smoker: no hard drugs or psychedelics. So I can’t speak to those.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 5, 2019 21:10:19 GMT
It may be that on some level Brian recognizes that taking drugs was a choice, mental illness isn't. So, by blaming drugs and warning people not to take them, he's focusing on what can be controlled. Also (or alternatively), there may be a degree of lack of awareness concerning his mental health that explains some of his comments over the years. This would hardly be uncommon. I think Kapitan was alluding to this, in a way.
I'm also more inclined to believe that Brian's greatest work was minimally affected by drugs. They're affected, they're different, but not necessarily better. Brian was at his musical peak then, that's why those songs are so great.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2019 22:52:52 GMT
Total Speculation Alert!
I've often thought that maybe he's just not comfortable speaking personally about mental illness, too. Considering his generation, especially, acknowledging something that feels like a weakness, an emasculating flaw, could be tough. The choices through history have been revel in your madness--the tortured artist schtick, which he played to a T for a while there pre-Landy--or just avoid it altogether.
You just didn't see people say "I have this condition, and because of it, I'm afraid. I can't do what most people can do because when I do, X, Y, and Z happen in my mind." I wonder if, no matter how many people now say it's fine, even admirable, to admit mental illness, he just isn't conditioned to do it, is embarrassed by it, and would rather deflect to drugs.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 5, 2019 23:04:56 GMT
Total Speculation Alert!
I've often thought that maybe he's just not comfortable speaking personally about mental illness, too. Considering his generation, especially, acknowledging something that feels like a weakness, an emasculating flaw, could be tough. The choices through history have been revel in your madness--the tortured artist schtick, which he played to a T for a while there pre-Landy--or just avoid it altogether.
You just didn't see people say "I have this condition, and because of it, I'm afraid. I can't do what most people can do because when I do, X, Y, and Z happen in my mind." I wonder if, no matter how many people now say it's fine, even admirable, to admit mental illness, he just isn't conditioned to do it, is embarrassed by it, and would rather deflect to drugs.
I think Brian did feel about mental illness the way B.E. and The Kapitan alluded to - for several decades right though the second Landy years. But I thought Melinda might've influenced or changed him, and I mean that in a good way. I'm not being sarcastic. She appeared more educated, more sophisticated, and more open-minded than Brian's previous family members (and that's not a knock on them; different times, different circumstances, less was known, more advances in medicine now). Melinda is more matter-of-fact and not afraid to talk about the subject. Obviously Brian isn't there yet, the talking about it. I don't think I ever heard the words depression, bi-polar, or schizoaffective disorder said by Brian. And that's OK. He doesn't have to. But he isn't self-conscious about mentioning the auditory hallucinations, which he attributes to taking drugs. Interesting.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2019 23:10:29 GMT
I agree entirely that Melinda has taken a public, normalizing stance. And that's great, because a lot of people suffer from those or other mental illnesses and we ought not stigmatize them.
But that said, you're right that Brian himself rarely speaks specifically about them. In interviews, he has sat beside her as she spoke about them. And then, yes, he talks about his hallucinations. The voices.
I'd love to hear his doctors' explanations of whether and how drugs played into his issues.
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